KidGamer65
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Well, considering Gai pushed back JJ Madara.....
Gai vs Ay and Onoki
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Well, considering Gai pushed back JJ Madara.....
-Akuma-
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Just outta curiosity, how much do you rate 7G Gai in terms if speed.
KidGamer65
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Faster than Ay, KCM Naruto and Minato, but slower than Ootsutsuki's, Juubi Jins, and Rikudo Naruto and Sasuke.
-Akuma-
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Strangely enough I can see him being that fast, I forgot about him pushing Madara. My opinion has changed on this.
Gold Lightning
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Since when does Gai pushing Madara back equals foot speed lol. It was Gai's Taijutsu that was pushing Madara back, not his foot speed. V2 Ay> 7G Gai, in speed and durability. Gai was throwing punches and kicks, yet people actually labelling that as foot/movement speed. Yeah right.
KidGamer65
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Lol. Gai was moving forward while Madara was jumping backwards. Gai was moving and punching, thus it was his Taijutsu skill and speed. Obviously.
Jesus. The inability to read the manga is astounding.
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-Gai is moving.
-Gai is moving forward.
-Gai is punching and kicking at the same time.
-Madara is moving backward.
-Gai keeps up and stays in his face.
Yet Gai somehow isn't using any kind of foot speed there. If what you were saying made a bit of sense, Gai would be shown standing still, not moving forward. Surprising Madara like he did
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is literally enough to put Gai above Ay in speed considering Ay went on about how his speed isn't enough to crush Madara's guard, thus had to resort to combining with Onoki.
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I'm assuming that Sasuke wasn't using any kind of foot speed in this scan either? Lol.
Haizaki
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Even though I do not want to imagine Gai beating 2 Kages of this caliber, I can't say he loses giving his feats with JJ Madara and his firepower. None of the 2 parties can outright blitz the other but one is superior in the overall speed department when it comes to CQC. Either way his firepower and fight speed would give him the win here and Gai would best Ay in a CQC if he was doing that to Madara.
Physically capable of keeping up with a Juubi Jin is a crazy feat ...It's plain ridiculous but he pulled it off. People usually say the aura blocked his vision but that's no true since Madara had a distance between him and Gai
Madara has a surprised face even though Gai just approached him in the next panel which means he did see Gai coming.
There's also the fact that Gai emits Aura/Steam and not chakra from his body which isn't capable of blocking the Rinnegan vision from what we know...
I personally think it's funny how people think Madara had his hands covering his face but could still see the steam Gai was emitting from his body.
The thing is Gai creates the steam/ aura..I've seen people say "Gai just came out the steam" but it isn't a wise point since Gai is the one creating the steam. Since he creates it, it should move where he goes right? So he shouldn't be coming out of it.
Either way Madara is a sensors and sensors can track movements
Gai's just ridiculous in the 7th Gates....I thought he was slightly below Ay before but Kishi was like "Y'all gonna learn" haha ..Sorry though, Just enjoy discussing Gai related topics with people that are interested in it.
Gaara did say his "Movements" as well..Considering it was a close combat fight with just only 2 strikes made, it definitely wasn't only striking speed involved or Gaara won't have mentioned movements based on seeing solely his strikes.
Physically capable of keeping up with a Juubi Jin is a crazy feat ...It's plain ridiculous but he pulled it off. People usually say the aura blocked his vision but that's no true since Madara had a distance between him and Gai
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Madara has a surprised face even though Gai just approached him in the next panel which means he did see Gai coming.
There's also the fact that Gai emits Aura/Steam and not chakra from his body which isn't capable of blocking the Rinnegan vision from what we know...
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I personally think it's funny how people think Madara had his hands covering his face but could still see the steam Gai was emitting from his body.
The thing is Gai creates the steam/ aura..I've seen people say "Gai just came out the steam" but it isn't a wise point since Gai is the one creating the steam. Since he creates it, it should move where he goes right? So he shouldn't be coming out of it.
Either way Madara is a sensors and sensors can track movements
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--->
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(Bottom right) Gai's just ridiculous in the 7th Gates....I thought he was slightly below Ay before but Kishi was like "Y'all gonna learn" haha ..Sorry though, Just enjoy discussing Gai related topics with people that are interested in it.
Gaara did say his "Movements" as well..Considering it was a close combat fight with just only 2 strikes made, it definitely wasn't only striking speed involved or Gaara won't have mentioned movements based on seeing solely his strikes.
-Akuma-
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Using the steam as a excuse is pretty lame, I can only see a couple of people doing that. But it's like you said even if that was the case Madara is still a censor lol.
My opinion on Gai's strength has really changed a lot and ever since the war I've come to like him. I used to rate him below the likes Ayy and Kakashi but at this point I see 7G Gai taking out people like Itachi, Gai without the 8th gate is top 15 material. I don't mind discussing Gai though, he's pretty interesting from a vs stand point.
Haizaki
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True bro..You can easily tell since he finally got feats and Kishi let him go up against the Jin which he himself must have greatly thought about since he drew the panles. Massive boost if you ask me but I'm kinda not surprised cuz in Gai's DB3 entry, Kishi did say he was above the entire Akatsuki but I didn't take that seriously considering the usual hype the DB gives...Though that was a random call.
I see him taking on extremely powerful opponents as well..Back in this base, people didn't really see Gai as that much of a powerful one. Now he's able to beat S Rank criminals, Kage leveled opponents and even hold his own for a short period against a Juubi Jin..It's just like my bro FT said, Gai became high Kage level with just 2 feats Lol.
-Akuma-
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DB3 said Gai was above every akatsuki member O_O. Though I'm glad he got his time to shine because he was never the main act in his other fights like against Obito (Where he still showed some good feats). Tbh though I thought Gai was near high Kage level after Hirudora wrecked Kisame and Madara's Susano. I'm glad I joined this forum tho I've been sleeping on characters like Gai.
Haizaki
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That was some crazy hype haha...Reasonable and logical person like yourself already know what he's capable of especially when shown more.
-Akuma-
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Well damn, for once the DB didn't over exaggerate the shit outta something, Dat Gai xD.
TRE MERCER
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Gai wins. Lighted Ei would still get blitzed honestly.
Bogard
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Sensory ability has never prevented surprise. I could show countless examples where a sensor has been caught off guard in this manga(Jubi Jins as well, Madara included). It depends on the focus and distractions can happen in battle(in this case, the steam)
It's funny that people really believe the steam was no factor in Madara's surprised look against 7th Gated Gai when he could clearly see a faster Gai(8 Gated Gai in night moth) coming, estimating the movement speed to be fast and even counter-act with his truth seeking ball(but Gai distorting space didn't allow it to happen):
Unless people really think 7th Gated Gai is faster than night moth Gai, it's unbelievable to see that so many people are this stupid
It's funny that people really believe the steam was no factor in Madara's surprised look against 7th Gated Gai when he could clearly see a faster Gai(8 Gated Gai in night moth) coming, estimating the movement speed to be fast and even counter-act with his truth seeking ball(but Gai distorting space didn't allow it to happen):
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Unless people really think 7th Gated Gai is faster than night moth Gai, it's unbelievable to see that so many people are this stupid
Gold Lightning
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So you're using a scene where Madara was casually back pedalling, to show me that guy was moving top speed Lol. No, the speed Gai used to approach Madara while he was blinded, was his top speed. And yes Madara was distracted and his vision was obscured, let's not leave this information out, because Madara was capable of following and reacting to 8 gates, evening elephant and even anticipated night moth, unless you actually believe that 7G>8G in speed. I can't believe you actually think Gai was moving top speed while simultaneously punching and kicking. That means Madara can walk backwards faster or just as fast as 7G speed Lol. It's clearly just taijutsu prowess overwhelming Madara, which is what is pushing him back, but my no means was he moving at high speeds.
The Sasuke example is exactly the same thing, just watch this scene animated, sasuke wasn't moving fast at all. How does one even control their onslaught of attacks while moving at such speed, not possible.
It's not even a hard scene to comprehend, I can't believe you of all people think just because Madara is being pushed back, equates to Gais foot speed being above everyone elses. The entire panel has nothing to do with foot speed. Even minato and co could follow Gais speed, telling him not to touch the Black balls as he approached. Gaara was witnessing all his moves, he was impressed by his taijutsu, not speed. If it was speed he wouldn't even have seen Gai.
It's your inability to read the manga that's outstanding. 7G Gai isn't new. The first time he was revealed, was back on turtle Island. Yet kishi still states Ay as the fastest. Tsunade is there (she knows all about Gai) didn't refute his comments. Gai is known as Konohamaru blue/green(don't remember) beast. He's used 7G against opponents before. People know what his 7G is capable of, Kakasho knows all about his gates, yamato knows all about his gates (as he's the one who explained Hirudora). Yet none has ever claimed Gai to be the fastest, so I have no reason to believe he's faster than the person Kishi States was the fastest. By your logic, Sasuke's speed > Tobirama because sasuke pushed Madara back. Lol
LuckyMan
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I was going to bring up the Kishi point of 7G Gai but dude above me just did.
After Kishi revealed 7G on Gai, A was still stated to be the fastest. The line between movement and fight speed is blurred and sometimes its not easy to distinguish the two especially since characters don't always use full speed in battle and are mostly restricted but I don't think that one panel should overrule the authors point.
After Kishi revealed 7G on Gai, A was still stated to be the fastest. The line between movement and fight speed is blurred and sometimes its not easy to distinguish the two especially since characters don't always use full speed in battle and are mostly restricted but I don't think that one panel should overrule the authors point.
KidGamer65
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There is little to no reason that Gai wasn't moving at top speed.
Except, Madara showed no difficulty following 7G Gai in this scene either, so I'm not even what point you are attempting to make, but like there rest of them, it makes zero sense.
That's exactly what happened, whether or not he's moving at top speed or not doesn't even change the quality of the feat. Gai attacked Madara, and pushed him back. If Gai was too slow, his Taijutsu prowess wouldn't mean shit as Madara would've back stepped so far back that he wouldn't be able to hit him. By saying Gai wasn't moving top speed, you are pretty much hurting your argument and helping mine. That Gai is faster than anyone who isn't a Juubi Jin, Ootsutsuki, or Rikudo Naruto and Sasuke.
Your "opinions" and disbelief aren't counter arguments.
Read above.
That example was to show that Sasuke was moving, not that Sasuke was moving at top speed.
This whole post seems like one big complaint to me. Cause you've given me no reason to believe your opinion, you've just stated it like it's a pre established fact.
How does them being able to see Gai move=/=Them being faster than Gai?
Oh wait, it doesn't. Not to mention he just says "inhuman movements". He doesn't say Taijutsu specifically.
Except you have zero proof that Tsunade has witnessed the 7G in action, nor is there proof that Ay has witnessed it in action, so he has no reason to take Gai's speed in that form into account. Ay said that he is the fastest man alive. Ay can only judge based of what he knows. Not others.
Not really the same thing tbh. Madara couldn't combat him with just a blade, so all he could do was backstep. Minato attacked JJ Madara, and got cut down. Gai did the same thing, but pushed him back a few meters instead. Madara had a weapon where he could've countered Gai, but he wasn't able to counter Gai.
Because he was too fast. It's really that simple.
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Haizaki
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Even though I believe your main aim was to downplay what happened, I'll give you thumbs up for a good post even though it's completely misunderstood.
Well I'm guessing you're going to bring up the case of Ma&Pa with the Paths but don't even think about it when they already had in mind he was dead which is a better explanation for them to stay unfocused in that aspect...When Madara has better sensory abilities by feats with how he reacted to Tobirama from the back or sense Hashirama from some distance.
You talk about focus and battle but what doesn't make sense is the fact that if Madara couldn't see Gai, what else would he resort to? You tell me? Not to mention the fact that Gai creates the steam(which Madara could clearly see like I showed since he could tell it was the blue and not the red) Why exactly won't the steam move with the one who's creating it? Why does Gai "come out of it" if it's bursting from him? No reason to believe this act of downplaying.
The funniest part of your argument is how you use Night Moth to prove your point but completely ignore the fact that same Chakra was bursting obstructing others in the same way
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Not to mention Aura=/=Chakra so stop with this "Madara couldn't see" or "He was obstructed" The Rinnegan's vision helped him.
The mere fact that he could see Gai running at him with NM debunks your claim considering he was in a similar position with his hands covering his front to brace himself from what was coming.
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It's funny how you yourself can't understand what was going on..The steam follows who creates it and it's clear from the distance/points I gave/showed, Madara could see him.
Did you even consider the fact that this panel
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Came before this panel
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What does that mean? Madara was surprised before Gai was shown to actually get to him. Using Madara being surprised because of the steam isn't a legit point because he was also surprised when Gai positioned right in his face to pull AT.
Not to mention this point about Madara attacking NM Gai while moving is clearly misunderstood...He attacked Gai when Gai tried to attack for NM(Strike with the kick). That was due to the fact that Gai's NM strike wasn't fast enough which means Madara beat him at that point when it came to attacking first..Not Gai's movement speed while in NM. You definitely got that wrong. I can easily prove you wrong since Madara opted to block rather than smack Gai in a much slower speed despite Gai being within strike range:
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Now unless you think that Gai can move faster than Yagai, then there's no point...Clearly it has to do with striking speed since Madara was completely surprised and couldn't strike like he did to Yagai despite this Gai being in striking range. NM wasn't executed fast enough like the punch of this EE which pushes Madara to the ground completely. It's completely understandable since Yagai is a flying kick anyways unlike a punch..EE's strike speed is faster which is why Gai wasn't touched or rather Madara didn't strike back. Madara
He thought within his head which is merely a matter of seconds so your point about him estimating Gai was fast doesn't hold...Ay saw Minato evade his fastest punch but Minato countered shortly after leaving him in the same exact position...What does this mean?
There's also the fact that Madara reacted to Tobirama from his back
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but struggled to do the same
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I was going to clown you here but your post was good so I'll let you off...Don't call anyone stupid Bogard. You know not to when you said silly things as well.
This same logic should go to those who think Minato reacted to Gai at full speed since Rock Lee physically reacted to him....7G Gai>>>>> 6G Lee so the logic you people use implies that 7th Gate's Gai can react to or is even faster than 8G Gai.
Oh and for those who think Sasuke's feat with Madara is comparable to Gai's, you're clearly wrong.
This:
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Is different from this:
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You can see 2 hits and contact being made in one while none in the other...You can see movements that didn't involve hits(The arrows) being made and yet he wasn't touched during those intervals..You can see him positioning and using a handsign right in front of a Jin from that close...Don't compare the 2 scenarios. Gaara has seen fast opponents like a lightened Ay, why was he that surprised if it was just a similar situation to Sasuke's.
We might as well start downplaying too and talk about the fact that Minato was helped by this blocking Madara's vision which left him surprised affecting his focus and we see Minato teleported right after.
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Knowing the people I'm arguing with, I'm probably going to here "Madara expected Minato since a kana was thrown" but how did he know when Minato was going to come at him when he couldn't see when Minato teleported due to the Sand? So it's the same case here that still puts Gai above him.
We can both use the same arguments since Madara expected both to come at him...However, if we're using "steam" as an excuse (which I've proved wrong) we can also factor in the sand making it an equal one with one part doing better than the other either way.
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LuckyMan
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So what made you change your mind?
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KidGamer65
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Feats and common sense. Ay saying he's the fastest doesn't equate to him being faster than those with abilities that haven't been shown to everyone or himself.