Prime Hiruzen + Enma = Undefeated?

[V h o]

True, especially when Rikuzen uses combination transformation with Enma.

 

[startup97]

There's as much assumption in this post as their is in Hiruzen's ability.

I'm sorry you can't see the merit in the sasori comment, as it directly correlated with the main topic of the thread. Or perhaps you didn't read those comments.

I never said Hiruzen wasn't formidable, but to place him in the higher echelon of shinobi is foolish.

Fanboys overrate him, that's what I'm saying. Perhaps you could see that if you would take the time to read comments instead of writing paragraphs of useless conjecture fueled by insulting undertones.

What the hell did Sakura and Sasori have to do with anything?

 

[The Necromancer]

What the hell did Sakura and Sasori have to do with anything?

Hiruzen > Third Kazekage
Third Kazekage defeated by Sasori
Sasori defeated by Sakura.

This was the progression of the thread with that single member. U_U

 

[Fair Game]

There's as much assumption in this post as their is in Hiruzen's ability.

I'm sorry you can't see the merit in the sasori comment, as it directly correlated with the main topic of the thread. Or perhaps you didn't read those comments.

I never said Hiruzen wasn't formidable, but to place him in the higher echelon of shinobi is foolish.

Fanboys overrate him, that's what I'm saying. Perhaps you could see that if you would take the time to read comments instead of writing paragraphs of useless conjecture fueled by insulting undertones.

So a young and vibrant Hiruzen can only do two kage bushins. The same for an old Hiruzen.
So a young and vibrant Hiruzen can barely lift Adamantine staff. The same for an old Hiruzen.
So a young and vibrant Hiruzen has a weak chakra pool. The same for an old Hiruzen.
So a young and vibrant Hiruzen does not know Konoha's jutsu.
So a young and vibrant Hiruzen cannot use RDS without having to use his body.
So a young and vibrant Hiruzen is very slow, physically weak and have low stamina. The same like old Hiruzen.

You see my dear friend if you agree with the preposterous claims above, you are simply hating and cannot see beyond that of what is implied as basic knowledge. This is no trick, nor am I implying that logic cannot be brought to a fictional world. Old men are weak compared to their younger self. I am not putting him in a pedestal but I am definitely not putting him as a subpar character, worthy of the trash next to it. You are on the other side of the spectrum, Illuminate yourself. Hiruzen is a ninja worthy of any spot between 18-20.
I'm done discussing with you.

 

[The Necromancer]

So a young and vibrant Hiruzen can only do two kage bushins. The same for an old Hiruzen.
So a young and vibrant Hiruzen can barely lift Adamantine staff. The same for an old Hiruzen.
So a young and vibrant Hiruzen has a weak chakra pool. The same for an old Hiruzen.
So a young and vibrant Hiruzen does not know Konoha's jutsu.
So a young and vibrant Hiruzen cannot use RDS without having to use his body.
So a young and vibrant Hiruzen is very slow, physically weak and have low stamina. The same like old Hiruzen.

You see my dear friend if you agree with the preposterous claims above, you are simply hating and cannot see beyond that of what is implied as basic knowledge. This is no trick, nor am I implying that logic cannot be brought to a fictional world. Old men are weak compared to their younger self. I am not putting him in a pedestal but I am definitely not putting him as a subpar character, worthy of the trash next to it. You are on the other side of the spectrum, Illuminate yourself. Hiruzen is a ninja worthy of any spot between 18-20.
I'm done discussing with you.

I have said nothing of the sort. Literally none of that.

 

[startup97]

Hiruzen > Third Kazekage
Third Kazekage defeated by Sasori
Sasori defeated by Sakura.

This was the progression of the thread with that single member. U_U

Well to be honest. Hiruzen would defeat the Third Kazekage.

 

[The Necromancer]

Well to be honest. Hiruzen would defeat the Third Kazekage.

Yes he would. So would a 16 year old child. This has been covered already. Do I have to read it back to you?

 

[Koha]

Not sure what you mean but Sakuras stronger imo.

LMAOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sakura is in no way shape or form stronger than Sasori. Sasori was technically one of the strongests in the Akatsuki, it was his Grandmother that did the work. And let's not forget, they needed extreme preparation..

Oh, let's also not forget Sasori allowed his feelings to take hold, & not kill Chiyo and allowed himself to be killed... Let's ALSO remember Sakura's antidotes were purely temporary and she would've died had it not been for Chiyo's Forbidden Jutsu.



OP: Hiruzen is a favorite of mine, but he was heavily retconned.

 

[Fair Game]

I have said nothing of the sort. Literally none of that.

Oh god, i'm not saying that you said that. I said if you AGREE, not Say lol.
Stop trolling Necro.
You keep implying that a prime Hiruzen does not exist, nor that a stronger version of an old Hiruzen is applicable because it was not "factual" etc. Or do you want me to highlight all your responses to show you.

 

[The Necromancer]

Oh god, i'm not saying that you said that. I said if you AGREE, not Say lol.
Stop trolling Necro.
You keep implying that a prime Hiruzen does not exist, nor that a stronger version of an old Hiruzen is applicable because it was not "factual" etc. Or do you want me to highlight all your responses to show you.

Prime Hiruzen is a fictitious tale. You know who else can use 5 elements, clones, and diamond hard attacks? Kakuzu. Is Kakuzu in the top 20? Maybe. Maybe not. There is no way to measure their ability.

Are we going to go around and around in circles for the rest of the thread? I have stated Hiruzen is not weak. I have stated Hiruzen is not as strong as people make him out to be. You keep stating that I am saying otherwise.

At this point I don't even know what you are arguing, but I have more important things that I would like to be doing, so if this could end here, that would be great.

 

[Koha]

Prime Hiruzen is a fictitious tale. You know who else can use 5 elements, clones, and diamond hard attacks? Kakuzu. Is Kakuzu in the top 20? Maybe. Maybe not. There is no way to measure their ability.

Are we going to go around and around in circles for the rest of the thread? I have stated Hiruzen is not weak. I have stated Hiruzen is not as strong as people make him out to be. You keep stating that I am saying otherwise.

At this point I don't even know what you are arguing, but I have more important things that I would like to be doing, so if this could end here, that would be great.

I would rep you for this statement, bro. But I still can't rep you yet xD I don't like the fact that Hiruzen is being so underestimated, but the facts are down packed... And I can't argue with circumstances that have never been revealed.

 

[Fair Game]

Prime Hiruzen is a fictitious tale. You know who else can use 5 elements, clones, and diamond hard attacks? Kakuzu. Is Kakuzu in the top 20? Maybe. Maybe not. There is no way to measure their ability.

Are we going to go around and around in circles for the rest of the thread? I have stated Hiruzen is not weak. I have stated Hiruzen is not as strong as people make him out to be. You keep stating that I am saying otherwise.

At this point I don't even know what you are arguing, but I have more important things that I would like to be doing, so if this could end here, that would be great.

We're not arguing, we are discussing.

We have free will dont we Necro? Go forth with your "important" things.

 

[startup97]

Prime Hiruzen is a fictitious tale. You know who else can use 5 elements, clones, and diamond hard attacks? Kakuzu. Is Kakuzu in the top 20? Maybe. Maybe not. There is no way to measure their ability.

Are we going to go around and around in circles for the rest of the thread? I have stated Hiruzen is not weak. I have stated Hiruzen is not as strong as people make him out to be. You keep stating that I am saying otherwise.

At this point I don't even know what you are arguing, but I have more important things that I would like to be doing, so if this could end here, that would be great.

Your being foolish. Prime Hiruzen exists. Read the Manga.

 

[The Necromancer]

We're not arguing, we are discussing.

We have free will dont we Necro? Go forth with your "important" things.

Wasn't sure if you were one of those members who would get butthurt and come to false conclusions based off of my leaving.

 

[OG sama]

LMAOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sakura is in no way shape or form stronger than Sasori. Sasori was technically one of the strongests in the Akatsuki, it was his Grandmother that did the work. And let's not forget, they needed extreme preparation..

Oh, let's also not forget Sasori allowed his feelings to take hold, & not kill Chiyo and allowed himself to be killed... Let's ALSO remember Sakura's antidotes were purely temporary and she would've died had it not been for Chiyo's Forbidden Jutsu.



OP: Hiruzen is a favorite of mine, but he was heavily retconned.

So you don't think current Sakura is stronger, because that's what I meant. :|

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

Well he was said to be stronger than hashirama at prime. But part 2 seems to have put hashirama on a huge pedestal where hiruzens hype seems like nothing.

Hiruzen could have been strongest of all the Kage of all time, we will never know. Due to peace time he was never tested.

 

[VongolaX]

Hiruzen could have been strongest of all the Kage of all time, we will never know. Due to peace time he was never tested.

You think prime Hiruzen is stronger than Sm Hashirama?

 

[SageOfTheTenPaths]

You think prime Hiruzen is stronger than Sm Hashirama?

We will never know.

 

[startup97]

You think prime Hiruzen is stronger than Sm Hashirama?

Yes. Unless 4th Databook states otherwise. We'll have to see.

 

[VongolaX]

^^last question

Do you guys have legitame technique Hiruzen can use to beat the buddah, Golem, and wood dragon?

(No other clan hidden techniques included only Sarutobi clan techniques can be used.)