Prime Hiruzen, should we give up?

Prime Hiruzen is real?

  • He will show up in part 3

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The hype is soooo real it's unreal!

    Votes: 8 30.8%

  • There is no hype!

    Votes: 6 23.1%

  • He already tanked buddah statue, so HELL YEAH!

    Votes: 6 23.1%

  • I'm hungry

    Votes: 6 23.1%
  • Total voters
    26
BLAZE

BLAZE

Sage of Six Posts 🔮
Immortal
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Messages
59,497
Reaction score
3,577
gobb01 said:
Neutralizer exists, just not in Hiruzen, nor the form we suspected! :snick:
Click to expand...

well in a way he neutralized himself without doing anything significant in the war :skorm:
 
Torche

Torche

Sage of Six Posts 🔮
Immortal
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
58,956
Reaction score
3,171
BLAZING STORM said:
well in a way he neutralized himself without doing anything significant in the war :skorm:
Click to expand...

XD I would post what I mean, but... It's really a thread for some other time. *Pokes forehead*
 
Slender Man

Slender Man

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
124
Reaction score
114
You must be registered for see images


You must be registered for see images
 
Hori

Hori

Sage of Six Posts 🔮
Immortal
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
83,696
Reaction score
1,094
Prime hiruzens feats are pretty impressive.
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Here is an explanation of Prime Hiruzen strongest technique

You must be registered for see images

People underrate Hiruzen, for several reasons:

1. His battle was in Part 1, which means it was not subject to the powerscaling that happened in Part 2
2. The difficulty of combating a Sannin and 2 Hokage is underrated

When it comes to Issue No1 People don't seem to understand that in Part 2 things have been power scaled up several times, so of course things in Part 1 seem less impressive now than they did back than. However we have a clear indication from the author that he meant this fight to be seen as "Incredibly High level" or "Hokage Level". Now in Part 2 things like using a Suiton Jutsu w/o a Water Source isn't all the impressive, because Kakashi, Yamato, and Kisame have all shown equal or better feats than this, however in Part 1, this feat is suppose to be so advance that its "unbelievable" and a truly Hokage Level Feat.

Obviously than Hiruzen producing such high level Doton and Katon w/o needing a source of Fire or Earth would be equally as unbelievable and considered "Hokage level" back than as well. The reason I'm bringing this up, is to point out if this battle happened in Part 2, it would be power scaled accordingly as well. We'd probably see Tobirama pull off Suitons on at least the scale Kisame used, Hashirama use Mokuton on the level he used against the Kyuubi in the Flashback, and Hiruzen counter all of these techniques effectively and manage to defeat the two Zombie Hokage with Shikka Fuujin regardless.

In-fact there is no reason to even debate whether or not Hiruzen is stronger than Hashirama and Tobirama, considering he defeated both of them simultaneously while also dealing with Orochimaru, with a simple explosive tag feint. The counter argument to this is that both the Hokage were weaker in their Tensei forum, but we have seen from recent chapters, that this is not true and in-fact the Tensei possess the full power they had in life [Unless they used some kind of special weapon, like Sasori's Puppets, which they don't].

The only reason the Hokage Tensei appear weaker is because there fight happened in Part 1, where using an A-Rank Suiton w/o a Water Source was an unbelievably high feat of Ninjutsu prowess. So its already proven in the manga that Hiruzen is stronger than Tobirama and Hashirama, because he defeated them in that battle. Even if one was to say, if they weren't mindless they would have noticed the explosive tags [Which I kind of doubt, because Orochimaru was not Mindless and he only noticed them after they detonated], than Hiruzen would have still defeated them with Shikka Fuujin.

Sure at the end their the Hokage toyed with Hiruzen a bit, but Hiruzen was incredibly handicapped the entire battle, so I believe the two even out.

When it comes to the No2 Issue, Its clear to me that people greatly underestimate how difficult it is for someone to combat two Hokage Tensei and Legendary Sannin simultaneously. How many characters in the entire Series could defeat Tobirama and Hashirama Tensei while also wounding Orochimaru so badly that he had to flee?

People say its BS that Old Hiruzen was the strongest of 5 Kages when he died, but I doubt any of the Kages could combat Orochimaru + Two Kage Tensei to that extent. People say its BS that Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage, but I doubt any of the Previous Hokage could combat Orochimaru + Two Kage to that extent. Hashirama or Tobirama obviously couldn't because they would be up against Zombie Immortal versions of themselves as well as a Legendary Sannin and another Hokage Zombie.

Tsunade obviously couldn't do it, because at most she is equal to just Orochimaru, but here she will also be facing 2 Zombie Hokage. Minato might be able to outperform Hiruzen by using Shikka Fuujin to beat the 2 Hokage and kill Orochimaru, but the Data-book states that Hiruzen could have done that if he was just 10 years young anyway

Quote:
DB2 Pg 59
The deciding factor for life and death in the fight between the Sandaime and Orochimaru is ‘age.’ If only the third were 10 years younger, the outcome could have been different.
And a 10 Year Younger Hiruzen isn't even a Prime Hiruzen, since the Manga clearly states for us that Hiruzen's Chakra has declined since his "Youth", which indicates that Hiruzen was at his strongest in his "Youth", not at the age of 59 ~ 60 [Like wise this also indicates that he was not in his Prime during the Kyuubi attack ether]:



In-fact there aren't many Shinobi in general that could defeat Orochimaru + Two Hokage Tensei. Pain Rikudo could Potentially beat them, but even he would have a tough time accomplishing it. Itachi could potentially beat them, but only because his Genjutsu specialization gives him the perfect counter to Edo Tensei. Madara could potentially do it. Also like I said above Minato could probably do it. AndFinally Danzo may be able to beat them.

Those are essentially the only 5 Ninja in the entire manga [Besides Hiruzen] that could defeat Orochimaru + the Two Hokage Tensei [One of those 5 (Itachi) only being there because he is a poor type match up]. Yet people say Hiruzen's hype is unfounded?

So Yeah obviously Hiruzen is the Strongest Hokage, if he is capable of beating the other two simultaneously when handicapped by age and would have defeated Orochimaru + the other two Hokage simultaneously if he was just 10 years younger, but still not in his "prime". How people can argue that Hashirama and Tobirama are stronger than Hiruzen is beyond my understanding [Maybe one could argue Hashirama with the Bijuu, but we don't even know if Hashirama fought with Bijuu or if the Bijuu are counted as his strength].

One could make an argument for Minato being equally as strong as 60 ~ 59 Year Old Hiruzen, if you think that Minato would be capable of defeating Orochimaru + the other two Hokage Zombie's, but even than Minato is just being compared to a still handicapped by age Hiruzen.
 
Last edited:
grizzlyshree

grizzlyshree

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
2,594
Reaction score
71
Hori said:
Prime hiruzens feats are pretty impressive.
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Here is an explanation of Prime Hiruzen strongest technique

You must be registered for see images

People underrate Hiruzen, for several reasons:

1. His battle was in Part 1, which means it was not subject to the powerscaling that happened in Part 2
2. The difficulty of combating a Sannin and 2 Hokage is underrated

When it comes to Issue No1 People don't seem to understand that in Part 2 things have been power scaled up several times, so of course things in Part 1 seem less impressive now than they did back than. However we have a clear indication from the author that he meant this fight to be seen as "Incredibly High level" or "Hokage Level". Now in Part 2 things like using a Suiton Jutsu w/o a Water Source isn't all the impressive, because Kakashi, Yamato, and Kisame have all shown equal or better feats than this, however in Part 1, this feat is suppose to be so advance that its "unbelievable" and a truly Hokage Level Feat.

Obviously than Hiruzen producing such high level Doton and Katon w/o needing a source of Fire or Earth would be equally as unbelievable and considered "Hokage level" back than as well. The reason I'm bringing this up, is to point out if this battle happened in Part 2, it would be power scaled accordingly as well. We'd probably see Tobirama pull off Suitons on at least the scale Kisame used, Hashirama use Mokuton on the level he used against the Kyuubi in the Flashback, and Hiruzen counter all of these techniques effectively and manage to defeat the two Zombie Hokage with Shikka Fuujin regardless.

In-fact there is no reason to even debate whether or not Hiruzen is stronger than Hashirama and Tobirama, considering he defeated both of them simultaneously while also dealing with Orochimaru, with a simple explosive tag feint. The counter argument to this is that both the Hokage were weaker in their Tensei forum, but we have seen from recent chapters, that this is not true and in-fact the Tensei possess the full power they had in life [Unless they used some kind of special weapon, like Sasori's Puppets, which they don't].

The only reason the Hokage Tensei appear weaker is because there fight happened in Part 1, where using an A-Rank Suiton w/o a Water Source was an unbelievably high feat of Ninjutsu prowess. So its already proven in the manga that Hiruzen is stronger than Tobirama and Hashirama, because he defeated them in that battle. Even if one was to say, if they weren't mindless they would have noticed the explosive tags [Which I kind of doubt, because Orochimaru was not Mindless and he only noticed them after they detonated], than Hiruzen would have still defeated them with Shikka Fuujin.

Sure at the end their the Hokage toyed with Hiruzen a bit, but Hiruzen was incredibly handicapped the entire battle, so I believe the two even out.

When it comes to the No2 Issue, Its clear to me that people greatly underestimate how difficult it is for someone to combat two Hokage Tensei and Legendary Sannin simultaneously. How many characters in the entire Series could defeat Tobirama and Hashirama Tensei while also wounding Orochimaru so badly that he had to flee?

People say its BS that Old Hiruzen was the strongest of 5 Kages when he died, but I doubt any of the Kages could combat Orochimaru + Two Kage Tensei to that extent. People say its BS that Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage, but I doubt any of the Previous Hokage could combat Orochimaru + Two Kage to that extent. Hashirama or Tobirama obviously couldn't because they would be up against Zombie Immortal versions of themselves as well as a Legendary Sannin and another Hokage Zombie.

Tsunade obviously couldn't do it, because at most she is equal to just Orochimaru, but here she will also be facing 2 Zombie Hokage. Minato might be able to outperform Hiruzen by using Shikka Fuujin to beat the 2 Hokage and kill Orochimaru, but the Data-book states that Hiruzen could have done that if he was just 10 years young anyway

Quote:
DB2 Pg 59
The deciding factor for life and death in the fight between the Sandaime and Orochimaru is ‘age.’ If only the third were 10 years younger, the outcome could have been different.
And a 10 Year Younger Hiruzen isn't even a Prime Hiruzen, since the Manga clearly states for us that Hiruzen's Chakra has declined since his "Youth", which indicates that Hiruzen was at his strongest in his "Youth", not at the age of 59 ~ 60 [Like wise this also indicates that he was not in his Prime during the Kyuubi attack ether]:



In-fact there aren't many Shinobi in general that could defeat Orochimaru + Two Hokage Tensei. Pain Rikudo could Potentially beat them, but even he would have a tough time accomplishing it. Itachi could potentially beat them, but only because his Genjutsu specialization gives him the perfect counter to Edo Tensei. Madara could potentially do it. Also like I said above Minato could probably do it. AndFinally Danzo may be able to beat them.

Those are essentially the only 5 Ninja in the entire manga [Besides Hiruzen] that could defeat Orochimaru + the Two Hokage Tensei [One of those 5 (Itachi) only being there because he is a poor type match up]. Yet people say Hiruzen's hype is unfounded?

So Yeah obviously Hiruzen is the Strongest Hokage, if he is capable of beating the other two simultaneously when handicapped by age and would have defeated Orochimaru + the other two Hokage simultaneously if he was just 10 years younger, but still not in his "prime". How people can argue that Hashirama and Tobirama are stronger than Hiruzen is beyond my understanding [Maybe one could argue Hashirama with the Bijuu, but we don't even know if Hashirama fought with Bijuu or if the Bijuu are counted as his strength].

One could make an argument for Minato being equally as strong as 60 ~ 59 Year Old Hiruzen, if you think that Minato would be capable of defeating Orochimaru + the other two Hokage Zombie's, but even than Minato is just being compared to a still handicapped by age Hiruzen.
Click to expand...

what u say seems right but i still need some more .

Big Third said:
Don't be foolish. He is a High Kage Level.
Click to expand...

how is he high kage?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top