I'am confused ??? or am i not ???

[ekichi onizuka]

Oke,let's say that Indra was madara in his previous life right ?

And now Madara is back to life,does it mean he's Indra. According to the story it should be Sasuke because of the all
the ying/yang stuff;Naruto is ashura which means Sasuke is Indra who's Madara than ???

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Maybe Madara and Hashirama were never Indra and Ashura...
which is weird because who were they at that time (i'm talking about the hasirama and madara era)

And the fact that madara know this much about the Sage and the younger brother and stuff is
questionable from who did he learn all that stuff ???

and remember Madara actived the rinnegan short after his death so there is no way he could tell the whole story from
the uchiha tablet.

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that's why he didn't know that the sage had a brother :Omg:

which takes us back to here:

Spoiler

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who saved Madara that day ?

could it be Indra ?

what did Hashirama see or sense ?

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[Flakez]

It was probably Indra who saved him. It's also likely that Indra is the one who came up with the moon eye plan, after saving Madara.

 

[Memento Mori]

first-you double posted
second-it may be indra or sage's brother

 

[UltraPain]

It was probably Indra who saved him. It's also likely that Indra is the one who came up with the moon eye plan, after saving Madara.

I like this idea! It does sound like something Indra would come up with since the moon is playing such a big part with the theories about Kaguya and Hagoromo. + rep

 

[Zol]

Madara is Madara.

Maybe he also is one of the incarnations of Indra, but really, that's not that important, it's just a form of heritage...

 

[SAGE OF ALL ELEMENTS]

Skimmed through your thread.

The concept of reincarnation is that the spirit or consiousness is reincarnated to a new body and in general , old memories are removed , old base personality querks may also be removed though they still carry some inkling of that and carry some of their old "grace" as that is etched deeply into their spirits or consiousness.

Old memories from previous lives are normally unretrievable without a guided past life regression with a currently existing powerful spiritual being ( That means that the spiritual being have not changed form and reincarnated to a new body ) or through meditations when you strengthen your power and spirit.

If madara was indeed indra in his previous incarnation...It does not mean he was as skilled as he was back then as his old knowledge and skills is buried deep within him that he would probrably have not recalled yet.

Just basically think of it as amnesia and starting a whole new life and remembering nothing else besides heavy things like your base personality. Old skills out of reach.( because you forgot how to do them and even if you remember them , your current physical body may be unfit to do them ) and others etc

---

I then read your post more carefully.

You said that if Madara was a former reincarnated indra and if sasuke is the current incarnation of indra, this opens up more possibilities and various concepts of

-Soul pieces
-Split up energy constructs etc.
-Lack of unision between subtle and/or mental bodies

It may be a interesting read if you spent your time researching.... Though i doubt Madara and Sasuke being incarnation of indra is possible. It may be but unlikely.

My lack of knowledge is unable to provide an.swers

It was probably Indra who saved him. It's also likely that Indra is the one who came up with the moon eye plan, after saving Madara.

I doubt it because of read above

first-you double posted
second-it may be indra or sage's brother

Possible

Madara is Madara.

Maybe he also is one of the incarnations of Indra, but really, that's not that important, it's just a form of heritage...

Madara is Madara.

Maybe he also is one of the incarnations of Indra, but really, that's not that important, it's just a form of heritage...

It is not simply heritage, it is much much more

 

[ANiMUS]

U guys really r making this more complicated than it has to be.
Hashirama was his generation's Ashura, Madara was his generation's Indura.
Naruto and Sasuke are the set from this generation
Madara is still an incarnation of Indura because that's simply who he is. (a previous incarnation) After Madara died it was pasted down to Sasuke, Sasuke is the Indura of this generation.

Basically, in past lives Sasuke who is Indura was Madara, and of course Indura himself, both were Indura and will remained Indura even if they are reborn.

 

[Colonel Armstrong]

i think he was indra. but over time he too had descendants and then sasuke became indra

 

[SAGE OF ALL ELEMENTS]

i think he was indra. but over time he too had descendants and then sasuke became indra

U guys really r making this more complicated than it has to be.
Hashirama was his generation's Ashura, Madara was his generation's Indura.
Naruto and Sasuke are the set from this generation
Madara is still an incarnation of Indura because that's simply who he is. (a previous incarnation) After Madara died it was pasted down to Sasuke, Sasuke is the Indura of this generation.

I do not think this sits very well with the concept of reincarnation, where the spirit and consiousness is transferred.

In this analogies , the body is just a vessel and all memories are stored within the consiousness and spirit , which resides seperately from the physical body.

The edo tensei work by summoning a spirit from the land of the dead back to their physical selves. If madara spirit was indra and indra is posseing sasuke body , he would not be able to be summoned at all since the spirit already reincarnated

 

[ANiMUS]

I do not think this sits very well with the concept of reincarnation, where the spirit and consiousness is transferred.

In this analogies , the body is just a vessel and all memories are stored within the consiousness and spirit , which resides seperately from the physical body.

The edo tensei work by summoning a spirit from the land of the dead back to their physical selves. If madara spirit was indra and indra is posseing sasuke body , he would not be able to be summoned at all since the spirit already reincarnated

The spirit is just copied not transferred. If that were the case upon reviving u would become a different person.

 

[Wabbit]

Curse of hatred flows through Uchiha blood. you dont specially need to Indras reincarnation. Uchihas inherit it and grows stronger with their emotion.and the same goes for Ashura and Hashirama.

 

[SAGE OF ALL ELEMENTS]

The spirit is just copied not transferred. If that were the case upon reviving u would become a different person.

Copy a spiritual body? Upon reincarnation , the spiritual body finds a new host.

In this kind of concepts , the physical body works because there is a spiritual body inhabiting it though in your physical body. In this state , the physical body would not have access to his past lives memories.

And also , it is not possible to copy a spiritual body at all. That is the summation of who a person is.

That is simply why in many cultures and their practices , it is not possible to summon a dead person that has reincarnated.

Your concept of reincarnation seems a bit sketchy or maybe mine is sketchy as it has been a few years since i researched and studied various occult topics . A spiritual body when taking care of a new body while possessing it does indeed become a "new person" as they have no access to their past lives knowledge without regression or highly spiritual meditation

Please explain your statement

 

[ANiMUS]

Copy a spiritual body? Upon reincarnation , the spiritual body finds a new host.

In this kind of concepts , the physical body works because there is a spiritual body inhabiting it though in your physical body. In this state , the physical body would not have access to his past lives memories.

And also , it is not possible to copy a spiritual body at all. That is the summation of who a person is.

That is simply why in many cultures and their practices , it is not possible to summon a dead person that has reincarnated.

Please explain your statement

It's not a transfer . Simply put in order for a new cycle to begin one cycle must end and then be born anew. If a past incarnation returns then u simply have a past incarnation and a present incarnation, the old does not become the new.

 

[SAGE OF ALL ELEMENTS]

It's not a transfer . Simply put in order for a new cycle to begin one cycle must end and then be born anew. If a past incarnation returns then u simply have a past incarnation and a present incarnation, the old does not become the new.

Yes , for one cycle to begin , another must end. Having a pass incarnation , the information of your past incarnation is transferred/copied onto the soul and/or consiousness then a new one is repossessed.

Normally , it is not possible for a past incarnation to return at all and thus only the present exists. So this case would be a anomoly that does not exist in occult concepts as far as i know of. The dynamic of the physical body explained by spiritual concepts is simply one of the Mind, Body and Spirit existing. When the spirit leaves , the body becomes as good as unfuctional at all and unable to do proccesses as explained by such concepts. The physical body then becomes a shell. That is all there is to it.

When a edo tensei is removed , the spirit is seen ascending. This simply also shows the fact that the dead spirits is drawn back for edo tensei.

If the spirit was reincarnated , then Madara( If he was indra )would not have been able to be summoned.

I do not really get your explanation and it still seems sketchy or perhaps my memory of knowledge of occult topics have diminished after i ceased studying and practicing.

Still , this is a interesting concept that is currently on in my opinion uncharted waters as such a thing has not been done.

 

[ANiMUS]

Yes ,transfe cycle to begin , another must end. Having a pass incarnation , the information of your past incarnation is transferred/copied onto the soul and/or consiousness then a new one is repossessed.

Normally , it is not possible for a past incarnation to return at all and thus only the present exists. So this case would be a anomoly that does not exist in occult concepts as far as i know of. The dynamic of the physical body explained by spiritual concepts is simply one of the Mind, Body and Spirit existing. When the spirit leaves , the body becomes as good as unfuctional at all and unable to do proccesses as explained by such concepts. The physical body then becomes a shell. That is all there is to it.

When a edo tensei is removed , the spirit is seen ascending. This simply also shows the fact that the dead spirits is drawn back for edo tensei.

If the spirit was reincarnated , then Madara( If he was indra )would not have been able to be summoned.

I do not really get your explanation and it still seems sketchy or perhaps my memory of knowledge of occult topics have diminished after i ceased studying and practicing.

Still , this is a interesting concept that is currently on in my opinion uncharted waters as such a thing has not been done.

I think u are trying to apply standard reincarnation concepts, but that is impossible because reincarnation and resurrection don't exist in the same religions. Therefore it would have to be more of a transfer of personalities, roles, and among the uchiha chakra

 

[Zol]

Wow, you people are truly overthinking things...

 

[SAGE OF ALL ELEMENTS]

I think u are trying to apply standard reincarnation concepts, but that is impossible because reincarnation and resurrection don't exist in the same religions. Therefore it would have to be more of a transfer of personalities, roles, and among the uchiha chakra

The concept of reincarnation is spread upon multiple religions, especially in any pagan reigions( Shinto, wicca and many others.Basically any religion with multiple dieties ) , hinduism and buddhism . Though you are right, ressurection is a highly uncommen concept and is only used in christianity if i remember correctly while reincarnation is used in multiple concepts

As a standard , most of them applies this to them

Reincarnation requires Mind, Body, Spirit

Ressurection requires Mind, Body, Spirit

Since , the spirit and it's multiple subtle bodies can only relistically manifest at one particular moment , excluding the concept of fragmentation of soul or residual remnants of spiritual energy , such a thing is not possible.

Thus , it is most likely that only one of them is the incarnation of Andra . Sasuke or Madara.

That is how i view things

---

I personally do not understand at all what you mean by "Transfer of personalities, roles and among the uchiha chakra"

 

[TrollKing]

Not everyone act like madara is indra. Not everyone act like naruto is ashura. People all have similar behaviors, but reincarnation is totally different

 

[ANiMUS]

The concept of reincarnation is spread upon multiple religions, especially in any pagan reigions( Shinto, wicca and many others.Basically any religion with multiple dieties ) , hinduism and buddhism . Though you are right, ressurection is a highly uncommen concept and is only used in christianity if i remember correctly while reincarnation is used in multiple concepts

As a standard , most of them applies this to them

Reincarnation requires Mind, Body, Spirit

Ressurection requires Mind, Body, Spirit

Since , the spirit and it's multiple subtle bodies can only relistically manifest at one particular moment , excluding the concept of fragmentation of soul or residual remnants of spiritual energy , such a thing is not possible.

Thus , it is most likely that only one of them is the incarnation of Andra . Sasuke or Madara.

That is how i view things

---

I personally do not understand at all what you mean by "Transfer of personalities, roles and among the uchiha chakra"

Obito said that Naruto and Sasuke are the next chain in the cycle. Plain and simple, the Sage Toad stated that Naruto will face a young man with powerful eyes. (Sasuke)
Each cycle in the incarnation has two opposing sides, Naruto and Sasuke, Madara and Hashi.
This theme has been passed down for a while that Naruto's main opposition is Sasuke. Having Madara as FV doesn't change that, because if it did there would be no resolution to the cycle.