[Theory] [FEAR] Hiruzen: Shinobi no Kami

[startup97]

I second this, Hiruzen can easily counter Shinsuusenju this way and beat Hashirama.

Also I would like to add

You must be registered for see links

to this thread, it's a further in-depth explanation as to Hiruzen's power and it makes just asmuch sense as this thread.

Damn!!! need to spread more rep around in order to rep you again! =D

 

[xcoyote]

Prime Hiruzen=Rikudou

 

[Senju Bean]

He knows all Leaf justsu, including Shinsuusenju. But he'll just use Koto Amatsukami on Hashi.

 

[Senju Bean]

itachi totsuka&amaterasu GG..

Hiruzen knows all Leaf jutsu. He'll just use Koto on Itachi, combined with Shinsusenju, Edo Tensei.

 

[Hypemaster]

Hell yeah son, this thread brings joy to my eyes.

 

[FearxDeath]

Hell yeah son, this thread brings joy to my eyes.

Much Obliged!!!

 

[Europa]

This thread only strengthens my resolve in believing in Hiruzen

 

[Scorpio0Pharaoh0Titan]

+rep. I agree.

 

[Armathyx]

Your statement has no merit

Actually it has as much merit as your thread, which is a fanboy thread. You intentionally left out the fact that Tobirama and Hashirama were not full power, for example. You are being a bigot.

Oh and don't give me the "he was not at his prime" bullshit. Neither was Chiyo and that didn't stop her from owning Sasori. Being old may have made him physically weaker, but he knew a whole lot more about jutsu at his old age than he did when he was young.

 

[Almighty Ra]

Great post and read

 

[Senju Bean]

My gut feeling tells me that he wasn't quite at Hashi's level but more along the lines of being stronger than a prime Hanzo or the Third Raikage. So I'm guessing that at his prime, he was Bijuu level, but not Hashirama/Madara level.

 

[FearxDeath]

My gut feeling tells me that he wasn't quite at Hashi's level but more along the lines of being stronger than a prime Hanzo or the Third Raikage. So I'm guessing that at his prime, he was Bijuu level, but not Hashirama/Madara level.

The same for me, that is why I gave it such an open ending. I find it hard to believe that he was as strong has Hashirama or Madara, but it is likely he was on Tobirama's level.

Great post and read

Thanks alot, im glad you liked it!

Actually it has as much merit as your thread, which is a fanboy thread. You intentionally left out the fact that Tobirama and Hashirama were not full power, for example. You are being a bigot.

Oh and don't give me the "he was not at his prime" bullshit. Neither was Chiyo and that didn't stop her from owning Sasori. Being old may have made him physically weaker, but he knew a whole lot more about jutsu at his old age than he did when he was young.

I remember you and your avatar. And made a decision some time ago not to respond to your comments. But I will leave you with some statements before i end this conversation.

You intentionally left out the fact that Tobirama and Hashirama were not full power, for example. You are being a bigot

I didnt leave it out.. It was obvious. Them not being at full power doesnt take away from the argument. Even if they were at half strenght for him to defeat both of them and Orochimaru at his old age is still quite a feat.

Oh and don't give me the "he was not at his prime" bullshit. Neither was Chiyo and that didn't stop her from owning Sasori. Being old may have made him physically weaker, but he knew a whole lot more about jutsu at his old age than he did when he was young.

I believe Hiruzen would have defeated Sasori as well, but Chiyo would not have defeated the 1st, 2nd and Orochimaru... This metaphor your trying to build is flawed.

Lastly knowing alot more is kind of a null point in a fight. What matters is physical strenght and chakra reserves. Orochimaru himself says that if Hiruzen was 10 years younger he would have beat him... So where do you get this idea that his old age didnt matter...

The false logic above is added with how demeaning and aggressive you are is the reason why I do not like to converse with you.

 

[Armathyx]

I believe Hiruzen would have defeated Sasori as well, but Chiyo would not have defeated the 1st, 2nd and Orochimaru... This metaphor your trying to build is flawed.

Lastly knowing alot more is kind of a null point in a fight. What matters is physical strenght and chakra reserves. Orochimaru himself says that if Hiruzen was 10 years younger he would have beat him... So where do you get this idea that his old age didnt matter...

The false logic above is added with how demeaning and aggressive you are is the reason why I do not like to converse with you.

Are you retarded? Like, really, is your brain damaged, or are you just playing stupid to try and evade my argument?

When was I comparing Sasori to Hiruzen?

The point was that being old did not mean being weaker hence why Chyio managed to defeat Sasori in spite of being much older. She managed to defeat him because she had more knowledge... and a bit because he let her kill him.

The Hiruzen/Orochimaru scenario is exactly the same. That's the point of my comparison. Hiruzen being older did not mean he was weaker than at his prime.

Hiruzen did not take on Orochimaru + Tobirama + Hashirama like you are insinuating. He look on Orochimaru first, and then on Tobirama and Hashirama. THere was never a direct 3v1, otherwise he would've lost instantly.

Regardless, Hiruzen is certainly not the god of shinobi and everyone knows this. Here are some characters that beat him:

Hashirama
Madara
Tobirama
Izuna
Nagato
Naruto
Minato
Itachi
Sasuke (current)
Orochimau
Kabuto (DSM)
Obito
Probably a good half of the previous Kage
...

The reason why I am aggressive towards you is that you are being a fanboy and you're playing stupid to evade obvious facts. I don't like it when people act like bigots, it irritates me. You are intentionally provoking flame wars. Accept that you are wrong when it's obvious you are, rather than dragging on the discussion, and don't try and pull Ad Hominem against me with all that "I remember your name and you are an idiot" bullshit. It's better to say nothing than to say nonsense.

 

[saw2097]

I second this, Hiruzen can easily counter Shinsuusenju this way and beat Hashirama.

Also I would like to add

You must be registered for see links

to this thread, it's a further in-depth explanation as to Hiruzen's power and it makes just asmuch sense as this thread.

This was actually very funny.

 

[FearxDeath]

Are you retarded? Like, really, is your brain damaged, or are you just playing stupid to try and evade my argument?

Didnt bother reading past this point, I hope it was worth typing it. It is statements like these that result in me refusing to respond to your comments.

 

[Armathyx]

Didnt bother reading past this point, I hope it was worth typing it. It is statements like these that result in me refusing to respond to your comments.

So you have a problem with ad hominem, but you don't have a problem with ad ignorantiam? For someone who claims to hate fallacies you have an inconsistency issue there son.

 

[FearxDeath]

So you have a problem with ad hominem, but you don't have a problem with ad ignorantiam? For someone who claims to hate fallacies you have an inconsistency issue there son.

Argument from ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary")

An Ad Ignorantiam is where one party asserts that a statement is true because it cannot be proven false and vice versa. That is not the case, in this thread I did not present anything to be true or false, I merely showcased a few of Hiruzens feats via manga scans.

So how I commited an Ad Ignorantiam is beyond me and only further discredits everything you say. Not that I read anything you say anyways, there is no reason to.

 

[startup97]

Are you retarded? Like, really, is your brain damaged, or are you just playing stupid to try and evade my argument?

When was I comparing Sasori to Hiruzen?

The point was that being old did not mean being weaker hence why Chyio managed to defeat Sasori in spite of being much older. She managed to defeat him because she had more knowledge... and a bit because he let her kill him.

The Hiruzen/Orochimaru scenario is exactly the same. That's the point of my comparison. Hiruzen being older did not mean he was weaker than at his prime.

Hiruzen did not take on Orochimaru + Tobirama + Hashirama like you are insinuating. He look on Orochimaru first, and then on Tobirama and Hashirama. THere was never a direct 3v1, otherwise he would've lost instantly.

Regardless, Hiruzen is certainly not the god of shinobi and everyone knows this. Here are some characters that beat him:

Hashirama
Madara
Tobirama
Izuna
Nagato
Naruto
Minato
Itachi
Sasuke (current)
Orochimau
Kabuto (DSM)
Obito
Probably a good half of the previous Kage
...

The reason why I am aggressive towards you is that you are being a fanboy and you're playing stupid to evade obvious facts. I don't like it when people act like bigots, it irritates me. You are intentionally provoking flame wars. Accept that you are wrong when it's obvious you are, rather than dragging on the discussion, and don't try and pull Ad Hominem against me with all that "I remember your name and you are an idiot" bullshit. It's better to say nothing than to say nonsense.

Sorry but Prime Hiruzen solos all.

 

[Armathyx]

An Ad Ignorantiam is where one party asserts that a statement is true because it cannot be proven false and vice versa. That is not the case, in this thread I did not present anything to be true or false, I merely showcased a few of Hiruzens feats via manga scans.

So how I commited an Ad Ignorantiam is beyond me and only further discredits everything you say. Not that I read anything you say anyways, there is no reason to.

It's never been stated in the manga, in Part 2, how Hiruzen fares against the new characters, yet you are just pulling this bullshit out of your ass. That's what I am accusing you of.

The only thing here that is being discredited is you, for everytime you refuse to answer questions. I know that you have read my previous post, don't give me the "I stopped reading after here" crap. You're a belligerent moron, you're bound to read what I have to say because you want to confront me.

So why don't you drop the act and answer my previous question, or just ask a mod to have this useless thread closed?

 

[FearxDeath]

It's never been stated in the manga, in Part 2, how Hiruzen fares against the new characters, yet you are just pulling this bullshit out of your ass. That's what I am accusing you of.

The only thing here that is being discredited is you, for everytime you refuse to answer questions. I know that you have read my previous post, don't give me the "I stopped reading after here" crap. You're a belligerent moron, you're bound to read what I have to say because you want to confront me.

So why don't you drop the act and answer my previous question, or just ask a mod to have this useless thread closed?

I begin my thread by explaining exactly what I am trying to do:

This thread is not meant to fan boy Hiruzen. Rather it is meant to simply highlight some factual manga evidence revolving around him and to showcase how strong he really is. Keep an open mind when viewing this thread please

Nowhere there do I mention how Hiruzen fares against other characters. Again all I am doing is listing some of his feats in order to show people how strong he is. The only time I ever even bring up any other characters is in the conclusion where I say:

What I am saying here is not that Hiruzen is stronger than Hashirama, or that he is stronger that Tobirama, or that he can solo the Juubi or anything. I am not Fanboying him, all I am saying is that we have good reason to believe that he was an exceptionally strong ninja who at the very least was on par with Tobirama and Hashirama.

This is an opinion statement. Which is why I say "believe" which is a word that expresses an opinion. Now as you just said there is no official synopsis of how Hiruzen fares against other characters so we can know for sure. Thus all we have to go on are our opinions. And I have said mine.

If you dont think I am allowed to have an opinion then I am sorry but I do, and I have given my reasons for having it. I even further qualify this opinion with the paragraph after it where I say:

Even in his old age he was able to subdue and seal both Hashirama and Tobirama and Orochimaru. Could he defeat Hashirama? Who knows, probably not, could he overpower Tobirama? Maybe maybe not. But was he on their level? Ofcourse...

This further shows that what I am saying is not factual but opinion based.

So why don't you drop the act and answer my previous question, or just ask a mod to have this useless thread closed?

I wont be doing either, I because I dont respect you as a person.