After Madara destroys Hashirama..

[Waltz]

@Bold, Hashirama phases down through his own Shinsusenju... You seem to forget he's one of the most powerful sensors in the series(No I didn't say most proficient, I said most powerful) and Madara is using his technique.

When you said I spewed nonsense, you didn't even explain my nonsense. I guarantee you attempted to give Nagato's feats to Madara, which is why you didn't even say anything in the end. I want you to explain which rinnegan techniques will harm Hashirama, and I will counter every single one of them U_U.

Hashirama is stalemating Madara's most powerful technique in this current battle with a mediocre technique at best. His technique even tanked a slash from Madara's PS, and is still fighting on par with it...? The only reason Hashirama hasn't blown past Madara is for the sake of plot Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing character progression from Sasuke, Naruto, Minato, Tobirama, or even Hiruzen.. Hashirama is the best candidate to go against current Obito considering he's the largest powerhouse and has sage mode techniques. He's easily the most durable shinobi on the field besides current Obito. He even has techniques that without plot progression being necessary, would have sealed the Juubi from the start...Yet you don't think he couldn't drop rikkudou's gate on Madara's susanoo, or better yet Madara, similar to how he did it to Obito. Hashirama definitely isn't being held back

Yawn...

Hashirama phasing down through the jutsu means that it is no longer applicable and his motive with the jutsu was negated. Not Nagato's feats but the power granted by the Dōujutsu itself. Rivaling the Rin'negan arsenal against Hashirama's resides in futility as it is all subjective; the end matter however is that Ningendō could seal Hashirama. Dropping the gate on Madara would amount to nothing and is also subjective.

@ Bold: Speculation.


​

 

[Multiply]

Yawn...

Hashirama phasing down through the jutsu means that it is no longer applicable and his motive with the jutsu was negated. Not Nagato's feats but the power granted by the Dōujutsu itself. Rivaling the Rin'negan arsenal against Hashirama's resides in futility as it is all subjective; the end matter however is that Ningendō could seal Hashirama. Dropping the gate on Madara would amount to nothing and is also subjective.

@ Bold: Speculation.

​

In order for Madara to utilize the Ningendo, he must get be in physical contact with him. It's not even necessary to say who was better at taijutsu... U_U

How does dropping the gate amount to nothing? Hashirama would effectively seal Madara if it is successful... How is the gate subjective when it's within his arsenal. That's like saying Madara using mokuton against Hashirama is subjective.

@Bold, How is it speculation... If Hashirama went up against Obito, there would be no need for Sasuke to gain PS, Naruto to gain BSM, Hiruzen to come back, Tobirama to show some suiton techniques, or Minato to showcase BM proficiency...


@Supreme X Uchiha, I think it would be exactly the same even if we had panel time. There's no reason to suggest it wouldn't be.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Madara is stronger by the sheer fact he has Hashirama's techniques on top of his own+Rinngegan.

 

[KingHashirama]

So fans have no decided that Hashirama has no jutsus besides Mokuton?


Meaning all his scrolls are useless.. all the jutsus he has inside the scroll of seals (seal of jutsus) are useless?

 

[Flawž]

Good > bad.

Will of Fire > Curse of hatred.

Peace through Love > Peace through Power.

Naruto > Sasuke

Hashirama > Madara.

 

[Waltz]

@Inanimated...

Taijutsu already secures Ningendō and observing their [Shodai and Madz] combat style, it too high a plausibility especially due to the fact that Hashirama remains illegible of Madara's potential while in his Edo Tensei State. The gate can be easily destroyed and avoided in various ways, as you yourself said 'if it is successful' that renders it subjective. Speculation because not only are you assuming but it has no Canonical foundation and the mere fact that Hashirama's and Madara's battle had no direct influence to the characters you listed... completely renders your point. ​

 

[Multiply]

@Inanimated...

Taijutsu already secures Ningendō and observing their [Shodai and Madz] combat style, it too high a plausibility especially due to the fact that Hashirama remains illegible of Madara's potential while in his Edo Tensei State. The gate can be easily destroyed and avoided in various ways, as you yourself said 'if it is successful' that renders it subjective. Speculation because not only are you assuming but it has no Canonical foundation and the mere fact that Hashirama's and Madara's battle had no direct influence to the characters you listed... completely renders your point. ​

Ningendo obviously can't be used in simply by touch and the soul is instantly sealed. As we saw with Naruto, Nagato used it on him, and Naruto was able to fight the effects of it. Despite losing, we can infer that the amount of time for ningendo to be 100% successful is dependent on the amount of chakra the victim has. So while Ningendo can be constantly kept up, and Madara could keep sapping his soul, it would be pointless. As stated before, Hashirama being one of the most powerful sensors in NV, would merely keep his distance, as we've seen he can.

The only reason I said, "if it is successful" is because I assumed you would say he could activate PS. It would be a stretch to suggest PS could break out of the gates. Which is why I went on to suggest it was successful(as there's no real reason why it shouldn't be).

Why is there no canonical foundation? Before Madara wanted to fight Hashirama, who was the one mainly dealing with the Juubi? Who was the one who initiated battle on Obito after he absorbed the Juubi? Who was the one who attempted to end the battle instantly with a sealing jutsu? The reason for the characters I listed getting their plot progression was because Madara distracted Hashirama...

 

[Made in Heaven]

Why is this important?

 

[Seventh Sama]

Sasuke will awaken tnj and convince madara to stop this war drama

I actually agree with you....

OT , Hashirama won't be fodderized that easily,

 

[End of Days]

shinsuusenju btchslaps

 

[Waltz]

Ningendo obviously can't be used in simply by touch and the soul is instantly sealed. As we saw with Naruto, Nagato used it on him, and Naruto was able to fight the effects of it. Despite losing, we can infer that the amount of time for ningendo to be 100% successful is dependent on the amount of chakra the victim has. So while Ningendo can be constantly kept up, and Madara could keep sapping his soul, it would be pointless. As stated before, Hashirama being one of the most powerful sensors in NV, would merely keep his distance, as we've seen he can.

The only reason I said, "if it is successful" is because I assumed you would say he could activate PS. It would be a stretch to suggest PS could break out of the gates. Which is why I went on to suggest it was successful(as there's no real reason why it shouldn't be).

Why is there no canonical foundation? Before Madara wanted to fight Hashirama, who was the one mainly dealing with the Juubi? Who was the one who initiated battle on Obito after he absorbed the Juubi? Who was the one who attempted to end the battle instantly with a sealing jutsu? The reason for the characters I listed getting their plot progression was because Madara distracted Hashirama...

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@Bold: No, Naruto would have died if it wasn't for Itachi.

Spoiler

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@ Red: Pay attention to the bold:

@Inanimated...

Taijutsu already secures Ningendō and observing their [Shodai and Madz] combat style, it too high a plausibility especially due to the fact that Hashirama remains illegible of Madara's potential while in his Edo Tensei State. The gate can be easily destroyed and avoided in various ways, as you yourself said 'if it is successful' that renders it subjective. Speculation because not only are you assuming but it has no Canonical foundation and the mere fact that Hashirama's and Madara's battle had no direct influence to the characters you listed... completely renders your point.

@ Blue: Because this is your assumption:
​

Hashirama is stalemating Madara's most powerful technique in this current battle with a mediocre technique at best. His technique even tanked a slash from Madara's PS, and is still fighting on par with it...? The only reason Hashirama hasn't blown past Madara is for the sake of plot Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing character progression from Sasuke, Naruto, Minato, Tobirama, or even Hiruzen..

.

 

[Multiply]

Spoiler

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@Bold: No, Naruto would have died if it wasn't for Itachi.

Spoiler

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@ Red: Pay attention to the bold:



@ Blue: Because this is your assumption:
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So you're saying, Hashirama will have no Knowledge of Madara touching him and his hands glowing up. Then he starts to become fatigued? Get out of here with that...

Like I said, Naruto still put up a fight. Even Bee gave him the advice to treat it as though it were the tug-of-war with Kurama. That further backs up my claim that there is a certain time frame dependent on the amount of chakra.

How is my statement, which is back up with manga facts, assumption. If Madara didn't distract Hashirama, none of those characters would have progressed to their current points in the manga.

You're grasping at straws to say the least.

 

[Waltz]

So you're saying, Hashirama will have no Knowledge of Madara touching him and his hands glowing up. Then he starts to become fatigued? Get out of here with that...

Like I said, Naruto still put up a fight. Even Bee gave him the advice to treat it as though it were the tug-of-war with Kurama. That further backs up my claim that there is a certain time frame dependent on the amount of chakra.

How is my statement, which is back up with manga facts, assumption. If Madara didn't distract Hashirama, none of those characters would have progressed to their current points in the manga.

You're grasping at straws to say the least.

Still don't follow?

What does Hashirama know of the Ningendō or it's workings? Nothing.

Naruto's soul was being absorbed save only for Itachi. Hashirama lacks the tug-o-war experience Naruto gained from the Kyuub therefore your false assumption doesn't apply. Gakidō absorbs chakra, Ningendō functions differently...then they claim I'm grasping at straws.

@Bold: Petitio Principii

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[xcoyote]

Hashirama spanks.

 

[KingHashirama]

@Waltz, mate you are simply defending Madara because you feel offended when people say Hashirama can beat him. You are offended by Hashirama being superior. But you feel he is inferior to Madara because of the "upgrades" he got. (not trying to sound rude, just trying to apply psychology).

However, the problem occurs when the manga is showing them as possible equals in their fight. You can create all the scenarios, but they will be worthless if Madara loses to Hashirama (which is also highly unlikely)... and when this happens you will feel mad further, because you believed Madara was stronger than Hashirama, so by Madara losing to Hashirama kishimoto trolled Madara.

But the problem lies in the fact that we have not seen Hashirama's full arsenal, he is said to have plenty of scrolls and kinjutsu. But we haven't seen him use it. He even has info on the rinnegan. On top of that he isn't the guy that is too stubborn to admit inferiority. So debating against Hashirama in your manner of debate (not just yours but, even Madara Rules, though he will keep denying it) is not helping, but further increasing this into a "personal battle". Because Hashirama has too many "Unknown" factors compared to Madara.

 

[Multiply]

Still don't follow?

What does Hashirama know of the Ningendō or it's workings? Nothing.

Naruto's soul was being absorbed save only for Itachi. Hashirama lacks the tug-o-war experience Naruto gained from the Kyuub therefore your false assumption doesn't apply. Gakidō absorbs chakra, Ningendō functions differently...then they claim I'm grasping at straws.

@Bold: Petitio Principii

​

Regardless of if he lacks the experience, Madara will actually need to hold him in place to initiate the tug-of-war like battle. Considering we've already come to the conclusion that even as of now, Madara still can't overcome Hashirama, why would we assume Madara can get Hashirama into a position to which he can take his soul.

I don't follow you. You're putting up an argument that even if Hashriama stayed, all of those characters would have progressed within the timeline they have thus far. Is that what you're saying?

 

[Waltz]

Regardless of if he lacks the experience, Madara will actually need to hold him in place to initiate the tug-of-war like battle. Considering we've already come to the conclusion that even as of now, Madara still can't overcome Hashirama, why would we assume Madara can get Hashirama into a position to which he can take his soul.

I don't follow you. You're putting up an argument that even if Hashriama stayed, all of those characters would have progressed within the timeline they have thus far. Is that what you're saying?

@bold: Doubtlessly, Confabulation.

My question is: Are you Masashi to know that they wouldn't have progressed? Basically, your saying that if preceding events had taken an alternate turn the same conclusions would not have been attained and it remains fallacious as correlation does not imply causation.

@KingHashirama: As if Madara has showcased his entire arsenal....


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[KingHashirama]

@bold: Doubtlessly, Confabulation.

My question is: Are you Masashi to know that they wouldn't have progressed? Basically, your saying that if preceding events had taken an alternate turn the same conclusions would not have been attained and it remains fallacious as correlation does not imply causation.

@KingHashirama: As if Madara has showcased his entire arsenal....


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It has never been implied that he hasn't showcased it =]. Nor is it implied he has many other jutsus in his arsenal.. But same can't be said for the man who was hailed as the "god of shinobi".. Madara has shown Katon/EMS techs/Rinnegan techs.. and so on. For Hashirama hasn't done shown anything except his wood techs.

All them scrolls:

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Also another problem occurs, when you guys start to believe that him being the strongest only has to do with 1 vs 1 fight.. but no. It is the fact that he was more well rounded : Genjutsu/Taijutsu/Mokuton/Fuinjutsu/Medical ninjutsu....

 

[Waltz]

Ad Ignorantiam.​

 

[KingHashirama]

And now he acts butt hurt.... -sigh-. Rationalism is lost on NB now. Just stay lost in Madara's hair.