SM Rasengan > Yata Mirror

[naruttebayo]

Material = something made of matter
Astral = non physical

Sound is made of matter and is astral
Natural energy is made of matter and is astral

you said it natural energy = astral = sound

but sound is already > yata manga fact


so may be senjutsu rasengan > yata (just a possibility )

and i'm not trolling

i'm obviously talking logically

besides do you agree new manga fact >> old manga fact ??????? :bouncy:

 

[Mellanoma]

In the chakra logic of Narutoverse it's well established that non physical is Yin and physical is Yang. You're the one who's trolling.

your right but we talking about astral and material..... the DB explains physical and non physical so why would it double phrase something? Just realize that Yata is unbeatable and keep it moving lol

 

[raziel777]

No it's not, Astral is Spiritual. The Yin Release (陰遁, Inton; Viz "Dark Style" or "Shadow Style") aka Genjutso. but nice try.

You are gravely mistaken.

Today's chapters proves that Senjutsu > Ying-Yang release

The Yin–Yang Release (陰陽遁, Onmyōton, In'yōton; English TV "Shadow and Light Style")

Obito is using a specific type of ninjutsu : Onmyoton

That's what senjutsu is the most effective against.

As you know, Yata is a spiritual weapon (made of ying release). Just like Susano. And we have instances where Susano tanked Senjutsu.. Right here.

Spoiler

.

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In short

Senjutsu > Onmyoton (ying-yang release)
Yata and Susano -- Only Spiritual (ying release)
Susano -- Blocked Senjutsu
Yata can too.


So NO. I believe you are wrong.

 

[ImNoOne]

your right but we talking about astral and material..... the DB explains physical and non physical so why would it double phrase something? Just realize that Yata is unbeatable and keep it moving lol

You yourself said that astral means non physical, and you agree that in narutoverse non physical means Yin. So that's what Kishi means with astral, he means Yin, which is spirit part of life. Search google for Yin and Yang.

You are gravely mistaken.

Today's chapters proves that Senjutsu > Ying-Yang release

The Yin–Yang Release (陰陽遁, Onmyōton, In'yōton; English TV "Shadow and Light Style")

Obito is using a specific type of ninjutsu : Onmyoton

That's what senjutsu is the most effective against.

As you know, Yata is a spiritual weapon (made of ying release). Just like Susano. And we have instances where Susano tanked Senjutsu.. Right here.

Spoiler

.

You must be registered for see images

In short

Senjutsu > Onmyoton (ying-yang release)
Yata and Susano -- Only Spiritual (ying release)
Susano -- Blocked Senjutsu
Yata can too.


So NO. I believe you are wrong.

Sorry but that was not Senjutso, that was Kabuto preforming Doton in Sage Mode. It's the same as when Naruto preforms Futon in SM when making Rasengan Shuriken.

SM allows you to draw a special kind of chakra from the nature, called Natural Chakra. The user can then do what he please with the chakra, if he uses the chakra to make a Rasengan Shuriken, for example, the user transforms the chakra nature into wind nature.

This is the beauty of rasengan in SM, because rasengan it self does not imply making any transformation on the chakra to turn in into any element, it simply condenses the chakra and gives it spin. So the user can make a pure Senjutso Rasengan. Which is not the case with Kabuto.

 

[raziel777]

You yourself said that astral means non physical, and you agree that in narutoverse non physical means Yin. So that's what Kishi means with astral, he means Yin, which is spirit part of life. Search google for Yin and Yang.




Sorry but that was not Senjutso, that was Kabuto preforming Doton in Sage Mode. It's the same as when Naruto preforms Futon in SM when making Rasengan Shuriken.

SM allows you to draw a special kind of chakra from the nature, called Natural Chakra. The user can then do what he please with the chakra, if he uses the chakra to make a Rasengan Shuriken, for example, the user transforms the chakra nature into wind nature.

This is the beauty of rasengan in SM, because rasengan it self does not imply making any transformation on the chakra to turn in into any element, it simply condenses the chakra and gives it spin. So the user can make a pure Senjutso Rasengan. Which is not the case with Kabuto.

Sorry but that was no Doton. It's A Sage Art : Inorganic Recreation. "That technique works by giiving life and controlling something that is not alive"
It can be used on all that is not organic, in that particular instance it was used on rocks but it's not limited to it.

Sorry but I'm right.

EDIT: Here is the name of the technique

Spoiler

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[Mrmojo8484]

According to last chapter SM Rasengan is made of Natural chakra.

So it happens that Natural Chakra it's not included on the chakra types Yata Mirror can defend against, which are all the present in the following graphic:

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Nature Chakra falls off this category. Another way of looking at it is that the above elements are molded to make Ninjutso, Nature chakra is molded to make Senjutso.

From DB:

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Attend on the fact that the description specifies that "any attacks... material or astral(/which is to include spiritual), NINJUTSO or physical...".
So can it defend against all Ninjutso, yes. Can it defend against Senjutso, manga says no and DB doesn't say it can.

Even more if you take Tobirama's comments about how Obito is combining several chakra natures in order to produce Onmyoudon which nullifies ninjutso, this is the exact same thing as what Yata Mirror does.


In other words once again Kishi made Itachi's words true. All techniques have a weakness, Yata Mirror's is Senjutso.

I made a similar thread earlier today. I agree.

 

[Owarij]

...The astral category is anything non physical... Shiki fujin, chakra , pein's soul stealing dragons.. If it isn't physically tangible , it falls under spiritual..

If we're following yata mirror's databook definition, It would simply negate the senjutsu chakra on impact, no questions asked

 

[Mrmojo8484]

You are gravely mistaken.

Today's chapters proves that Senjutsu > Ying-Yang release

The Yin–Yang Release (陰陽遁, Onmyōton, In'yōton; English TV "Shadow and Light Style")

Obito is using a specific type of ninjutsu : Onmyoton

That's what senjutsu is the most effective against.

As you know, Yata is a spiritual weapon (made of ying release). Just like Susano. And we have instances where Susano tanked Senjutsu.. Right here.

Spoiler

.

You must be registered for see images

In short

Senjutsu > Onmyoton (ying-yang release)
Yata and Susano -- Only Spiritual (ying release)
Susano -- Blocked Senjutsu
Yata can too.


So NO. I believe you are wrong.

This picture doesn't prove anything. Watch as I dismantle you post:

1. Made it obvious (stated it as well if i'm not mistaken), that his intentions weren't to kill either on of them.

2.In essence, your saying that the susanoo in the pic would survive gaaras imperial desert funeral....which I highly doubt.

3. Your overrating the toughness of susanoo. Mei melted it, Ay cracked it, tsunade shattered it and oonoki would have disintegrated it had he used jinton on sasuke.

 

[Mrmojo8484]

...The astral category is anything non physical... Shiki fujin, chakra , pein's soul stealing dragons.. If it isn't physically tangible , it falls under spiritual..

If we're following yata mirror's databook definition, It would simply negate the senjutsu chakra on impact, no questions asked

Explain.

From what i'm reading from the databook, it copies the elements affinity to negate it. Senju arts have no elemental affinities.

 

[Solo]

Wrong. Susano'o in general would block it. Susano'o blocked Giant Rasengan with just the ribcage.

 

[raziel777]

This picture doesn't prove anything. Watch as I dismantle you post:

1. Made it obvious (stated it as well if i'm not mistaken), that his intentions weren't to kill either on of them.

2.In essence, your saying that the susanoo in the pic would survive gaaras imperial desert funeral....which I highly doubt.

3. Your overrating the toughness of susanoo. Mei melted it, Ay cracked it, tsunade shattered it and oonoki would have disintegrated it had he used jinton on sasuke.

You got it totally wrong. Susano's resilience has nothing to do with this discussion.

The OP says senjutsu can bypass Yata. Because Senjutsu > Onmyouton and Senjutsu wan't part of the description in Yata's abilities (what the OP thinks)

I say Yata is a spiritual weapon, another spiritual weapon (Susano) was proven to be able to withstand Senjutsu but wouldn't the Yata be able to do the same..

 

[ImNoOne]

...The astral category is anything non physical... Shiki fujin, chakra , pein's soul stealing dragons.. If it isn't physically tangible , it falls under spiritual..

If we're following yata mirror's databook definition, It would simply negate the senjutsu chakra on impact, no questions asked

You always appear out of nowhere. Care to explain how. Because from what we read from DB it says that Yata Mirror repels material, astral, ninjutso and physical. It clearly does not refer Senjutso and Itachi himself said that everything has a weakness...

 

[raziel777]

Explain.

From what i'm reading from the databook, it copies the elements affinity to negate it. Senju arts have no elemental affinities.

You read wrong, it also says it alters its attributes. Attribute is not limited to elements, ying release is an attribute, yang release too

 

[Owarij]

Explain.

From what i'm reading from the databook, it copies the elements affinity to negate it. Senju arts have no elemental affinities.

You're obviously reading it wrong... its stated that that's how it would defend from elemental attacks... It goes on to say that it doesn't matter what nature the attack is , it will lose its meaning.... We've seen Sasuke run in with his non elemental physical katana.. and Orochimaru try slamming it with his non elemental Hydra heads.. all failed and was repelled.. The shield, does not.. and I put emphasis on does not, only repel ninjutsu... I have no idea where this misconception came about from


From this chapter today , we find out about OnMyYoudon.. The real question is it related to the "magic" that was put into making the yata mirror, or something more

 

[ImNoOne]

You read wrong, it also says it alters its attributes. Attribute is not limited to elements, ying release is an attribute, yang release too

And Senjutso is neither one of those. But all of those are in the description. Kishi intentionaly left out Senjutso.

 

[Owarij]

You always appear out of nowhere. Care to explain how. Because from what we read from DB it says that Yata Mirror repels material, astral, ninjutso and physical. It clearly does not refer Senjutso and Itachi himself said that everything has a weakness...

Itachi and tobi stated that every "Jutsu" has a weakness.. Yata mirror for one is not a Jutsu and it is described in both the databook and Manga, as literal "Magic" and "SuperNatural" ,

mag·ic
/ˈmajik/
Noun
The power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

su·per·nat·u·ral
/ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
Adjective
(of a manifestation or event) Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

It is supposed to be beyond basic understanding.... When you're talking about Magic, you're in a different ball game than plain nin and taijutsu.... Its like asking how Jashin Grants his religious followers the power of immortality.. The very mythology and lore of the items state that they were created by gods..

As I said before.... Spiritual/ astral attacks, are attacks without physical form.. And both plain chakra, and senjutsu fall under it..

 

[raziel777]

And Senjutso is neither one of those. But all of those are in the description. Kishi intentionaly left out Senjutso.

Yet I have proven to you that spiritual weapon > senjutsu. And Yata is a spiritual weapon

 

[Draphsin]

From DB

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Senjutsu is no exception when we are talking about the yata mirror, it will alter every one of its properties in order to defend the incoming attack.

 

[ImNoOne]

You're obviously reading it wrong... its stated that that's how it would defend from elemental attacks... It goes on to say that it doesn't matter what nature the attack is , it will lose its meaning.... We've seen Sasuke run in with his non elemental physical katana.. and Orochimaru try slamming it with his non elemental Hydra heads.. all failed and was repelled.. The shield, does not.. and I put emphasis on does not, only repel ninjutsu... I have no idea where this misconception came about from


From this chapter today , we find out about OnMyYoudon.. The real question is it related to the "magic" that was put into making the yata mirror, or something more

It's true that Yata Mirror can withstand more than Ninjutso, which are the 5 elements. It can also withstand physical attacks = Taijutso and Yin Yang attacks. but the method on how it withstands them should be the same.

Also we have to take into context what type of Jutso Edo tensei really is. It's definitely not an element combination of jutsos. In fact it combines both the ability to callback a soul (which is YIN) and restore it into a body (which is YANG).

This is why OnMyYoudon was able to cancel it. because it was using the same type of chakra.

That's how the Yata Mirror works. Now why would Kishi specify all the types of chakra including Yin and Yang and leave out Senjutso if not on purpose? He wanted it to be all he should either specify all of them or none. Leaving one out will always give room to speculation.

In other words I may not have definitive proof that Senjutso can defeat Yata Mirror, but neither can anyone prove it can't because Data Book literally leaves only Senjutso out.

 

[Owarij]

It's true that Yata Mirror can withstand more than Ninjutso, which are the 5 elements. It can also withstand physical attacks = Taijutso and Yin Yang attacks. but the method on how it withstands them should be the same.

Also we have to take into context what type of Jutso Edo tensei really is. It's definitely not an element combination of jutsos. In fact it combines both the ability to callback a soul (which is YIN) and restore it into a body (which is YANG).

This is why OnMyYoudon was able to cancel it. because it was using the same type of chakra.

That's how the Yata Mirror works. Now why would Kishi specify all the types of chakra including Yin and Yang and leave out Senjutso if not on purpose? He wanted it to be all he should either specify all of them or none. Leaving one out will always give room to speculation.

In other words I may not have definitive proof that Senjutso can defeat Yata Mirror, but neither can anyone prove it can't because Data Book literally leaves only Senjutso out.

You're just ASSUMING it left it out... but by listing, Astral,physical,material and ninjutsu... It covered EVERY type of attack possible... Iv'e said it like 3 times already.. Sage techniques will fall under astral attacks

but the method on how it withstands them should be the same.

That claim makes no sense.. it stated its imbued with all possible nature elements, but ofc that has nothing to do with non elemental attacks.... It didn't change to earth element to block Sasuke's Katana...there was no element.. it literally repelled him, he was sent flying in the next direction as his katana did..