[Theory] [Spoiler] There's no denying it now

[6PathsofKami]

Good read, I dont know why but I keep thinking that Obito's Sharingan will change into something different now, maybe the eye of the Juubi.

 

[GhostProject]

Good read, I dont know why but I keep thinking that Obito's Sharingan will change into something different now, maybe the eye of the Juubi.

Thank you. This is just speculative but I believe he used Izanagi to avoid death or become the Juubi Jin, because if he had a sharingan at this point, it wouldn't make sense why he wouldn't just instantly Moon Eye resulting in villain victory.

But Obito is not this generations SO6P. I don't get your symbolism.

But the SO6P said himself, that his successor will do it "the right way", so to speak. He will gather the bijuu's and do the "right thing". So this is the one we should be looking for, and there is no other person than Naruto, who is capable of creating a system, that will remain after his death.

The symbolism is that all of Obito's most major feats are opposite reflections of Rikudou's accomplishments, he is an anti-Rikudou, as shafninja worded it. Obito is also a character that his entire character development, is both Yin-Yang and not a single side, unlike most characters. He has stated he will be the reason Naruto and Sasuke fight, putting his role in the plot as both main villain and the middle ground for their fight like Rikudou was in his choosing of a successor. (If the foreshadowing and prophecy was correct)

Also the S06P is not about bringing eternal peace, Rikudou died before his true peace could be achieved. It is about being a God concept character, whose power is creation of reality. The one that will carry on the dream of peace and the Sage's Will after death has always been foretold of the Younger Son, who is Naruto's past generation comparison. No doubt Naruto will bring the peace. But his role as the Younger Son is to ascend the Sage and create true peace, so he will become something more than the title of S06P. Why have to choose between Naruto and Obito on who will be the Sage when we can have a Sage and the inheritor that will surpass said Sage

For a more detailed explanation of the Obito dualistic symbolism, refer to it might clear up some of the patterns

You must be registered for see links

Obito is simply the Sage in a world inherited by the Curse of Hatred.
I cannot change your mind, but I can attempt to change your perception =D
Thank you for the post, criticism is excellent.

Yup,there's no denying this fact now..In fact I predicted this back in May and it feels good that it has come true
Good job and ***** from me..Here's the link to my thread

You must be registered for see links

It will entertain you

Indeed thank you for your post! It is quite funny how the answers have always been there all along, isn't it! =D

A very nice read. I think I would put it as Obito is an Anti-Rikudou. He has the same ideals about peace but is doing it in a malevolent fashion. (I'm not saying he is as powerful as Sage)

Excellent, Anti-Rikudou is exactly what I was looking for. It's interesting how Obito and Rikudou seem to have a Yin-Yang relationship regarding their philosophies on creation of reality and peace Thank you for your post!

Good Theory and all but Obito is not the next SO6P....

It's Naruto since Naruto carries The SO6P's and Bijuu's Will.... Plus Kurama is going to be upgraded by the powers Naruto received from other Bijuus.... That's how Naruto is The next SO6P.... =D =D

I respect this view, however, why can it not be both? Naruto is the Younger Son representation character, and is destined to surpass the Sage and create true peace. When Naruto inherits the Will of the Sage characters to create true peace, he will not use a jutsu to create reality. He will create his reality through the "Power of Love" that Kishi stated was the Younger's philosophy.
Obito and Rikudou are both meant to die before their true peace can be attained. It is the Younger Son who is destined to attempt to carry on that Will.

Thank you for the post! =D

nice detailed and makes sense....

Thank you

 

[Lightning Release]

Nice thread/theory..

off topic: I still hate obito and think he's a *****.

 

[GhostProject]

Nice thread/theory..

off topic: I still hate obito and think he's a *****.

Thank you
& By the manga's end, I feel he will have still earned your respect as a villain though

 

[saw2097]

That's one long and descriptive theory, it is also very interesting.

I will give you credit, its a very interesting and well thought out theory.

 

[GhostProject]

That's one long and descriptive theory, it is also very interesting.

I will give you credit, its a very interesting and well thought out theory.

With how in depth this topic could be analyzed, I still had to end up cutting a lot of the points and evidence I wanted to include XD Thank you very much for reading and glad you found it interesting!

 

[chopstickchakra]

All those good points and he's still going to lose to Naruto.

 

[EliteRamenNinja]

Obito, king of trolls!

You must be registered for see images

 

[GhostProject]

All those good points and he's still going to lose to Naruto.

Haha yea, but at least the fight will be amazing

Excellent thread.

Thank you very much!

 

[Shinichi Izumi]

But he loves Rin :|

 

[GhostProject]

But he loves Rin :|

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

He only loves the Rin that didn't die :dunno:

 

[Daruidull]

Keep them coming bro, you are doing pretty well!

Good analysis again ghostproject!

 

[GhostProject]

Keep them coming bro, you are doing pretty well!

Good analysis again ghostproject!

Thank you very much! =D And don't worry, I intend to have another theory up soon, so I'm not stopping yet

 

[psukkar]

so far so6p's motivations were world peace,

obitio;s morivation is revenge on the world for his girl dying, which by the way she choose.

So I cant see how obitio would be the one that is being the so6p figure.

I think madara has far better motivations than obitio, at least madara has a point when talks about his reasons for fighting. you can use the excuse for everything obitio has done to his sensei,naruto, the village all because rin decided to die for the greater good of her mission with kahashi.

Why didn't other shinobi have a cry, ill tell u whyt because madara gave him some power that's why. and hes been misusing his entire life. Far more spoiled than sasuke ever was, lol at least sasuke lost his family and his clan.

tobi should never have been obito, he hasn't seen all real horrors of the shinobi like madara has.

If anyone should be the new so6p wanabe its madara.

And naruto is clearly the new so6p because the tailed beasts acknowledged him. OBito will never have such a pleasure.

 

[GhostProject]

so far so6p's motivations were world peace,

obitio;s morivation is revenge on the world for his girl dying, which by the way she choose.

So I cant see how obitio would be the one that is being the so6p figure.

I think madara has far better motivations than obitio, at least madara has a point when talks about his reasons for fighting. you can use the excuse for everything obitio has done to his sensei,naruto, the village all because rin decided to die for the greater good of her mission with kahashi.

Why didn't other shinobi have a cry, ill tell u whyt because madara gave him some power that's why. and hes been misusing his entire life. Far more spoiled than sasuke ever was, lol at least sasuke lost his family and his clan.

tobi should never have been obito, he hasn't seen all real horrors of the shinobi like madara has.

If anyone should be the new so6p wanabe its madara.

And naruto is clearly the new so6p because the tailed beasts acknowledged him. OBito will never have such a pleasure.

Obito's goal is to create a perfect world where people don't have the pain of death and conflict, not revenge. Peace through illusion.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

The only time Madara really pushed his Moon's Eye plan was in order to manipulate Obito. Obito is the one that pushed the Moon's Eye plan this entire time, and still is the only one playing a role in it.

Madara is the Elder Son, who wants peace through domination and raw power. Notice his wording on this panel when he's telling Obito about the plan. He emphasizes twice that he can control everything in the genjutsu twice, which is different than Obito's explanation of it, that has the heavy emphasis on achieving true dreams and that reality is broken, but never emphasizes personal control. The physical manifestation of Madara's Will even is a tool that is used to dominate people against their will.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

Not justifying Obito's actions, but he wants to create a world where people's inner desires come true, making him different in intention than Madara who wants to become a true dictator. Obito is the Sage/Anti-Sage wannabe and Madara is a representation of the Elder Son

Also, Naruto is not the SO6P. He is the Younger Son. The Sage could never achieve true lasting peace, but entrusted that the Son who had the power of love would become his successor. Naruto is the prophecy that Rikudou talked about in his dying days to the Tailed Beasts, the one who would lead them down the right path when they became One again. Acknowledging Naruto as a successful Younger Son, means that he achieved the true power Rikudou was talking about and truly surpassed Rikudou.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Thank you for posting your opinion! I hope there are some agreeable points you can find though in mine xd

 

[StraawHat]

That sir. Is an excellent theory !

 

[GhostProject]

That sir. Is an excellent theory !

Thank you StraawHat =D I'm glad you liked it!

If you found this one interesting, then I advise you check out the second link in my signature, The Trinity Theory. The character parallels only get deeper

 

[thegame]

The symbolism is that all of Obito's most major feats are opposite reflections of Rikudou's accomplishments, he is an anti-Rikudou, as shafninja worded it. Obito is also a character that his entire character development, is both Yin-Yang and not a single side, unlike most characters. He has stated he will be the reason Naruto and Sasuke fight, putting his role in the plot as both main villain and the middle ground for their fight like Rikudou was in his choosing of a successor. (If the foreshadowing and prophecy was correct)

Also the S06P is not about bringing eternal peace, Rikudou died before his true peace could be achieved. It is about being a God concept character, whose power is creation of reality. The one that will carry on the dream of peace and the Sage's Will after death has always been foretold of the Younger Son, who is Naruto's past generation comparison. No doubt Naruto will bring the peace. But his role as the Younger Son is to ascend the Sage and create true peace, so he will become something more than the title of S06P. Why have to choose between Naruto and Obito on who will be the Sage when we can have a Sage and the inheritor that will surpass said Sage

For a more detailed explanation of the Obito dualistic symbolism, refer to it might clear up some of the patterns

You must be registered for see links

Obito is simply the Sage in a world inherited by the Curse of Hatred.
I cannot change your mind, but I can attempt to change your perception =D
Thank you for the post, criticism is excellent.

I can agree to much of what you are saying. You are definitely not wrong, however, the SO6P did bring peace. He did stop the Juubi, which was the entire problem at the time. However, when he died, his too sons started a conflict, which lead to a very long awful chain of hatred.
As I see it, this chain of hatred can only be stopped by the person, who inherited the SO6P's will, namely Naruto.

It's true that Obito looks like the sage, and he has the same abilities, i.e. rinnengan+Juubi, however, this in my opinion, does not make him this generations SO6P, because as I see it, it's not about abilities, it is about intentions. Which is why I can agree, that he is the exact opposite as you somewhat said.

To me there are 2 possibilities:
1. Only the Sage's 2 sons can bring peace by ending the long chain of hatred. Namely Naruto and Sasuke will stop the long feud, that is now between Konoha and Uchiha. Let's not discuss how this is done, though. However, there is still hatred between villages to concern about.

2. The SO6P's will is inherited by Naruto - as suggested by the 9 beasts - this may still lead to possibility number 1 though, but it may also lead to other options. Naruto may simply the savior of the world. This war has already ended a long deal of hatred. Naruto has already proven himself to every shinobi and samurai on the battlefield, and thus he could truly be chosen as the next leader of the shinobi alliance, from which his will (the SO6P's will) shall become of major importance, because it will be the main factor in deciding, what to do with the tailed beasts, which eventually may lead to peace. Clearly Hashirama's resolve was wrong, so Naruto will do something else.

 

[GhostProject]

I can agree to much of what you are saying. You are definitely not wrong, however, the SO6P did bring peace. He did stop the Juubi, which was the entire problem at the time. However, when he died, his too sons started a conflict, which lead to a very long awful chain of hatred.
As I see it, this chain of hatred can only be stopped by the person, who inherited the SO6P's will, namely Naruto.

It's true that Obito looks like the sage, and he has the same abilities, i.e. rinnengan+Juubi, however, this in my opinion, does not make him this generations SO6P, because as I see it, it's not about abilities, it is about intentions. Which is why I can agree, that he is the exact opposite as you somewhat said.

To me there are 2 possibilities:
1. Only the Sage's 2 sons can bring peace by ending the long chain of hatred. Namely Naruto and Sasuke will stop the long feud, that is now between Konoha and Uchiha. Let's not discuss how this is done, though. However, there is still hatred between villages to concern about.

2. The SO6P's will is inherited by Naruto - as suggested by the 9 beasts - this may still lead to possibility number 1 though, but it may also lead to other options. Naruto may simply the savior of the world. This war has already ended a long deal of hatred. Naruto has already proven himself to every shinobi and samurai on the battlefield, and thus he could truly be chosen as the next leader of the shinobi alliance, from which his will (the SO6P's will) shall become of major importance, because it will be the main factor in deciding, what to do with the tailed beasts, which eventually may lead to peace. Clearly Hashirama's resolve was wrong, so Naruto will do something else.

Well thought out and very logical. I would like to point out though, that Rikudou brought peace in the same way Obito brought war. Once either of them die, it is over and left up to the Sons to determine the future of the world. Of course, like you said this still leaves Obito as a contrast SO6P. I agree it is not abilities that makes Obito the Sage, but it is that relationship that Obito holds between Naruto and Sasuke that makes him key to being the form of the Sage in the new generation.

His intentions are the same as Rikudou, to create peace, however I do see your point here. There is an intuitive difference between Obito and Rikudou's intentions, like Obito was dominantly won over by Power and Rikudou was dominantly won over by Love. But at this point, I think it's his role in bringing the Son's together and against each other that locks in his role.

Also, your possibilities are spot on. No matter what, Naruto is inheritor of the Sage's mention of what true power is, but I do believe we'll see possibility 1 take the dominant role. Since part 1, bonds have to just been too much of a theme and the theme of "heroes don't become heroes alone," in the war arc for Naruto to just become the Savior and solo save everybody in the end. We have to see his bond/rivalry with Sasuke resolve before he surpasses the Sage.

OT: I think we actually have really similar opinions, but merely have a difference of opinion in interpreting Kishimoto's literary elements regarding Obito =D

 

[PIOLO]

It has been heavily foreshadowed by Kishimoto that Obito is in fact, the new generation's Sage of the Six Paths. He has done this through mirroring Obito's feats to the Sage's and clever use of subtle symbolism and characterization. If there is any denial of it now, I hope this thread will clear things up.
Anyways I'm going to try to keep this short and simple

You must be registered for see images

Main Premise- Obito's role as a villain is to complete The Moon's Eye plan (and has been the sole character that has moved the plan forward), and create a new reality. From Obito's many speeches about Rikudou, the ability to create is what defined the Sage. Obito's goal is to have the power to turn his imagination into reality, which means his abilities would have to rival the Sage's, to work as the main villain.

Feats-
1. It was hinted that Rikudou was a great bringer of peace. Obito is the one that brought on the greatest war in ninja history.
2. Rikudou separated the Bijuus from the Ten Tails. Obito is the one that brought the Bijuus back together to form the Ten Tails.
3.

Spoiler

Obito and Rikudou have been the only Juubi Jinchuurikis. Becoming the Jinchuuriki for both was also not the entire goal, but a means to the end of peace.

4.

Spoiler

Creation: At the end of 637, Obito is covering up his Sharingan.

Most likely because he used his Izanagi, but not necessarily to not die. He described the power to Konan as the ability to make imagination into reality, and that it was the Jutsu Rikudou used to "create". At this point it doesn't seem far-fetched to assume that Obito used his Izanagi to mold reality to him becoming the Juubi Jinchuuriki, when it seemed like an impossible feat from his position.

Conclusion from feats- Obito is meant to be an anti-S06P or a corrupted Sage of sorts, and will represent the current generation's Sage until the end of the manga.

Supporting characteristics from theming of Obito-

Yin-Yang is a common concept in the Naruto series, however, two characters stand out as being constantly characterized with the dualism concept as part of their single character: Rikudou and Obito (Other characters are a part of this concept, but usually they are only the expression of Yin or Yang, not both)

For a more detailed version of Obito's dualism analysis, refer to my other thread:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see links

Note: The conclusion gets speculative at the end, but the supporting evidence remains valid and is the main focus for the purpose of this thread

1. Dualism Symbolism-

-Obito's body is exactly half senju, half uchiha
-Obito has the Rinnegan (Sage's Eye), and Sharingan (Curse of Hatred Eye)
-Obito's white mask design is the Juubi's eye, a visual combination of both the Rinnegan and Sharingan

2. Characterization
-Obito was the main narrator for the most important stories regarding Rikudou and his sons. Kishimoto did not choose this by chance.

-In the fight vs Kakashi in more recent chapters, Kakashi points out that Obito is trying fighting his younger self through trying to deny Naruto and Kakashi's philosophies. Obito's elder curse of hatred is metaphorically fighting his younger will of fire self. A familiar theme here...

- Obito stated that he will manipulate and be the context for the Naruto and Sasuke fight. Similar to how Rikudou's choice of successor was the reason The Elder son fought the Younger and carried on the Senju vs Uchiha legacy.

-Obito's constant will to deny reality and recreate his own is his motivation as a character. His motivation has always been to be Rikudou's successor.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

What it all means:
The series buildup has reached a critical point revealing Obito to be the villain counterpart to Rikudou, and from here on out we will see the conflict buildups brought to resolution between Hashirama and Madara, the Naruto vs Sasuke fight, more attempts to save Obito's younger will of fire, and Naruto becoming the true successor to the will of Rikudou and Obito. Time to just enjoy the ride

tl;dr: Obito is the main villain and counterpart to Rikudou that Naruto must overcome.

ALL CAME FROM MADARA, RINNEGAN, HIS LIFE, MOST OF ALL HIS KNOWLEDGE AND REASONING ALL TAUGHT BY HIS MASTER MADARA EVEN HIS THRONE RYT NOW AS A STRONGEST....IT IS ABSOLUTELY TURN OR RETURN ALL WHAT HE STOLE/GOT FROM MADARA (BUT OFCOURSE HIS INTELLIGENCE;FAIL SAFE TRUMP CARD) FOR HE(MADARA) IS THE MOST GENUINE CHARACTER IN NV.........

I MEAN...............ALL WHAT HE HAVE JUUBITO NOW IS ALL CREDITS DONE BY MADARA, YOU KNOW OBITO STARTS FROM STUPID TO BECOME JINCHUURIKI...MY POINT IS SINCE THE START IT EVOLVE ALL OF BRILLIANT MIND DONE BY MADARA............EVEN SO6P IS JUST A MERE FRACTION OF MADARA'S INTELLIGENCE.. MADARA SINCE CHILD IS A PRODIGY AND BECOME NOT SOLO KING BUT INFINITE KING OF NARUTOVERSE BEYOND... HE IS NOT GENUINE AND JUST A THIEVES AS A S*** GOT FROM ALL MADARA'S PLANS....JUST SAY CONDOLENCE TO SO6P FOR HIS IRESPONSIBLE ACT ALREADY DONE IN JUUBI..........IF HE KNOW THE JUUBI IS A THREAT FROM THE START HE MUST HAVE TO BECOME A ULTIMATE KISHIMOTO NO JUTSU AS BEING IMMORTAL TO PROTECT NARUTOVERSE FOREVER IF HE IS JUST STATED AS TO BE STRONG UNLIKE MADARA THAT HE IS LEGITIMATE A LICENSED, AND HE DOESNT OWE TO ANOTHER ONE W/C IS DONE BY OBITO JUST TO "REPAY" HIMSELF AND ACT ACCORDINGLY TO HIS PLAN OR ELSE HE USED A TRUMP CARD A FAIL SAFE PLAN DONE BY JUUBITO...................MADARA IS JUST INFINITELY KING AND BEYOND INFINITE............

MADARA SEEMS NOT OWING TO SOMEONE ITS JUST HE CLAIM LIKE A DEBT COLLECTOR.....FROMJUUBITO,HASHIRAMA IZUNA FOR MAKING HIM A 2ND TO HIM WHEN HE LIVES BEFORE...........EVEN SO6P,IRRESPONSIBLE GIVING ITS A ONLY WAY ONLY MADARA KNOWS W/O ANY HELP AND DONE BY HIS OWNSELF

MAYBE MADARA WILL GO TO DRAGONBALL UNIVEERSE....HE CONQUERS ALL IN NARUTOVERSE


I'd normally agree with this, if it weren't for the fact that Madara actually showed up himself, essentially taking over for Obito as the main leading figure of the war to continually push his plan. If Madara had remained a shadowy figure all throughout, I'd agree that Obito is the main antagonist, but the fact remains that he actually showed up himself and his character is even fully explored to solidify his presence. Not to mention, Madara's influence is ultimately what led Obito to do the things he did. Despite being more prominently shown in the series, Obito is treated almost as a second-in-command to Madara. This is very evident in the way they interact each other. Sure Obito is doing this based on his own reasons, but it ultimately makes him an enforcer of Madara's plans and not necessarily based on his own separate one. Heck he even pretended to be "Madara" on behalf of Madara, so Madara's presence and influence is definitely felt throughout the series even before his actual in-person appearance. While I agree that Madara can technically be considered as the main antagonist of the series, I think that Obito's role as a major antagonist should still be noted (just like with Orochimaru and Nagato)