FearxDeath
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
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Proof Reading, will delete this sentence once finished.
This occured to me when someone had brought up the topic and I felt it was worth mentioning. People give Naruto and his Sage Mode jutsu far too much credit, and even though it is his biggest strength it is also his greatest weakness. Which to me is why we have seen him start using the jutsu at lesser and lesser lengths than he did when he was a kid. And we also find out how adverse the jutsu becomes when Shadow Clones comes into the mix.
As the scan says, your chakra is divided amoung each clone who then act on there own, lets do some math to find out how damaging this really is. Let us say the average Jounin has 1,000 Chakra Supply. Lets say that Naruto has 10x this amount, including chakra from Kurama. Which would give him 10,000 Chakra. Now if Naruto was to make 3 clones, each would have 3,300 Chakra supply, which in itself isnt too bad. But if he were to make 10 clones. Now as we this jutsu has the potentail to do alot more harm than good as it makes the original user alot weak. These are alot different from regular clones which have no chakra and are merely diversions, or water/earth clones which hold 1/10 of the casters chakra and dissepate into there respective natures when destroyed [
The identifying trait of a shadow clone is that it disapears into a puff of smoke when destroyed, and can interact physically with other objects and people. But again most importantly is that rather than having a fraction of the casters jutsu they have a dividend of it. If kakashi was to make 2 water clones they would each have 1/10th of his chakra and he would have 8/10ths, if he were to make 2 shadow clones him and the clones would each have 1/3 of his maximum chakra. This allows the shadow clones to use more powerful attacks at the cost of the casters chakra.
*Keep in mind one does not regain the chakra used to create a shadow clone when the clone is detroyed, this is the same for ANY clone technique. Although one does gain the experience and knowledge gained of the clone regardless. The Chakra is only regained if the user manually releases the technique, I will comment on this later in the thread in the "ADDED SECTION"*
Types of Clone Jutsu's
ADDED SECTIONS
Replies to Great comments
Proof of Clone Draining Chakra
Rai-kage Bunshin = Lighting-Shadow Clone
In this scan where kakashi fought off Pain he opened with a lighting-Shadow Clone, afterwards Choiji's dad says it was an impressive feat but what about your chakra reserves, and kakashi responds by saying he has about half his chakra left.
Now we already know that Chidori doesnt consume alot of chakra, we have seen Kakashi use it far too many times without being drained of half of his chakra. So then why when mixing a lighting style with a clone does he suddenly lose HALF his entire chakra? Because when the clone was killed the chakra was not returned to him.
One thing to keep in mind is that Kakashi's lighting clone technique was a shadow clone combination with a lighting technique. We know that it is a shadow clone because it can interact with the objects around it and cast jutsu. Here is a link backing up this fact: [
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This occured to me when someone had brought up the topic and I felt it was worth mentioning. People give Naruto and his Sage Mode jutsu far too much credit, and even though it is his biggest strength it is also his greatest weakness. Which to me is why we have seen him start using the jutsu at lesser and lesser lengths than he did when he was a kid. And we also find out how adverse the jutsu becomes when Shadow Clones comes into the mix.
What is the Shadow Clone Jutsu
Shadow clone is merely a jutsu that allows you to create clones of yourself which can be used in many different ways from attacking the enemy, distracting the enemy, confusing the enemy, or even gaining intellegence from the enemy.
Short-coming of the Shadow Clone Jutsu
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As the scan says, your chakra is divided amoung each clone who then act on there own, lets do some math to find out how damaging this really is. Let us say the average Jounin has 1,000 Chakra Supply. Lets say that Naruto has 10x this amount, including chakra from Kurama. Which would give him 10,000 Chakra. Now if Naruto was to make 3 clones, each would have 3,300 Chakra supply, which in itself isnt too bad. But if he were to make 10 clones. Now as we this jutsu has the potentail to do alot more harm than good as it makes the original user alot weak. These are alot different from regular clones which have no chakra and are merely diversions, or water/earth clones which hold 1/10 of the casters chakra and dissepate into there respective natures when destroyed [
You must be registered for see links
].The identifying trait of a shadow clone is that it disapears into a puff of smoke when destroyed, and can interact physically with other objects and people. But again most importantly is that rather than having a fraction of the casters jutsu they have a dividend of it. If kakashi was to make 2 water clones they would each have 1/10th of his chakra and he would have 8/10ths, if he were to make 2 shadow clones him and the clones would each have 1/3 of his maximum chakra. This allows the shadow clones to use more powerful attacks at the cost of the casters chakra.
*Keep in mind one does not regain the chakra used to create a shadow clone when the clone is detroyed, this is the same for ANY clone technique. Although one does gain the experience and knowledge gained of the clone regardless. The Chakra is only regained if the user manually releases the technique, I will comment on this later in the thread in the "ADDED SECTION"*
Types of Clone Jutsu's
Not all clones are Shadow Clones. For instances there are Rock Clones, Water Clones and Earth Clones, Although these are not standard clones as they have "Substance" and can interact with things and attack things, they are also not refereed to or thought of as Shadow Clones. [
But it is only in Kakashi's case do we see the clone refereed to as a kage, or shadow.
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]But it is only in Kakashi's case do we see the clone refereed to as a kage, or shadow.
How Sage mode fits in with Shadow Clones
For Naruto to extend his Sage Mode time limit he has to reverse summon a clone that has gathered Sage Chakra them release the technique, rememeber he needs to release it personally, the technique can not be ended by any other means like the clone being killed, if so the chakra will not return to him.
I think this happens because Sage Chakra is a powerfull thing, and litterally what it is is Naruto's Yin, Naruto's Yang and Nature Energy to create Sage Chakra. When the Sage Clone is released his chakra which is now mixed with Nature energy also returns to him.
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I think this happens because Sage Chakra is a powerfull thing, and litterally what it is is Naruto's Yin, Naruto's Yang and Nature Energy to create Sage Chakra. When the Sage Clone is released his chakra which is now mixed with Nature energy also returns to him.
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Why Sage Mode doesnt work with Shadow Clones well
As said earlier using Shadow Clones divide your chakra supply by the amount of clones you summon, and if you release the technique any chakra remaining within the clone will be returned to you, except the chakra used to initiate the jutsu in the first place. This is shown by Kakashi using the technique when he is extremely low on chakra, and still being ok after releasing the technique even though he created a vast amount of clones.
But here is the Rub, If Naruto creates 2 clones and leaves them to gather chakra, they walk away with a portion of his chakra. If he has 10,000 Chakra then after creating 2 clones each clone including himself would only have roughly 3,000.
So now he is walking around with 3,000 Chakra, now if on top of that he gets into a fight and ends up creating 3 clones, much like he did in his fight with pain, each clone including himself would only have 750 Chakra. Now that is less than a jounin level ninja, assuming my estimates of Naruto's Chakra is correct.
So as you can see if Naruto does keep 2 Clones on stand by to allow him to extend his Sage Mode Jutsu, then that leaves him with very little Chakra left to fight with. Now lets take this further:
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But here is the Rub, If Naruto creates 2 clones and leaves them to gather chakra, they walk away with a portion of his chakra. If he has 10,000 Chakra then after creating 2 clones each clone including himself would only have roughly 3,000.
So now he is walking around with 3,000 Chakra, now if on top of that he gets into a fight and ends up creating 3 clones, much like he did in his fight with pain, each clone including himself would only have 750 Chakra. Now that is less than a jounin level ninja, assuming my estimates of Naruto's Chakra is correct.
So as you can see if Naruto does keep 2 Clones on stand by to allow him to extend his Sage Mode Jutsu, then that leaves him with very little Chakra left to fight with. Now lets take this further:
Naruto cannot use KCM and SM at the same time!!!
This is simple:
Chakra is created by combining ones Yin and Yang Energies, Sage Chakra is created by combining ones Yin and yang energies along with Nature energy. KCM is created by combining ones own Chakra with the tailed beasts chakra:
The process of combining ones chakra with a tailed beasts Chakra normally starts off with a cloak, with advanced users being able to turn entire body parts into tailed beasts appendages. With the Final form of TBM being the Jinchuriki controlling the Bijuu's Body.
Now if TBM is attained by merging ones chakra with the tailed beasts, and SM is attained by merging nature energy with ones inner energies, then there cannot be both TBM and SM at the same time. TBM is attain by manipulating ones chakra which is only possible after one has created chakra by mixing there yin and yang energies thus missing the chance to add the nature energy.
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Chakra is created by combining ones Yin and Yang Energies, Sage Chakra is created by combining ones Yin and yang energies along with Nature energy. KCM is created by combining ones own Chakra with the tailed beasts chakra:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
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The process of combining ones chakra with a tailed beasts Chakra normally starts off with a cloak, with advanced users being able to turn entire body parts into tailed beasts appendages. With the Final form of TBM being the Jinchuriki controlling the Bijuu's Body.
Now if TBM is attained by merging ones chakra with the tailed beasts, and SM is attained by merging nature energy with ones inner energies, then there cannot be both TBM and SM at the same time. TBM is attain by manipulating ones chakra which is only possible after one has created chakra by mixing there yin and yang energies thus missing the chance to add the nature energy.
Conclusion
By using Shadow Clones in conjuction with Sage Mode Naruto drastically reduces the amount of chakra he has to work with by 66%, leaving him to work with 33% of his Original amount of chakra. This is further reduced if he makes additional clones after to fact.
With that said I dont think we will be seeing Naruto use Shadow Sage Mode very often, especially now that he has Kurama. He would likely use Sage Mode at the start of a fight and then switch to KCM once it runs out.
With that said I dont think we will be seeing Naruto use Shadow Sage Mode very often, especially now that he has Kurama. He would likely use Sage Mode at the start of a fight and then switch to KCM once it runs out.
ADDED SECTIONS
Replies to Great comments
Great comment made by Turson
This is such a common misconception that I will address it in my thread. But what you see in that scan, the ones following and proceeding it is not KCM. That is merely Naruto taking on some characteristics of the Kyuibi. Much like Fuu got wings from her bijuu. KCM is something different entirely.
From my point of view, now it was already stated in the manga that over time Kurama's and Naruto's Chakra merge together and become one, thats just the Natural proccess of being a Jinchuriki. But going into KCM mode requires Kurama and Naruto working together as one, not just his chakra. If that was the case Naruto would have been able to use it a long time ago. This may be complicated as I simplified my thread slightly to save space, I did say that KCM was merely achieved by Naruto merging his chakra with Kurama, but the proccess is slightly more complicated than that.
Ill do some thinking on this and update the thread once I have a better answer, but this is an interesting find as I didnt know about this before.
Good reply given by Blast
Clones? Who is talking about Clones... I am NOT talking about why Naruto does not use clones, I am talking about why Naruto no longer uses clones in conjuction with SM like he did against Pain.
Now I suppose your point is to say that Naurto has soo much chakra that losing 66% of his chakra is not a big deal to him, but I disagree, during the Great Ninja War did do alot but at the same time he also had breaks inbetween fights to regain his chakra. Running 100 miles in 1 day nonstop is alot different than running 100 miles over a week with breaks inbetween.
This is such a common misconception that I will address it in my thread. But what you see in that scan, the ones following and proceeding it is not KCM. That is merely Naruto taking on some characteristics of the Kyuibi. Much like Fuu got wings from her bijuu. KCM is something different entirely.
From my point of view, now it was already stated in the manga that over time Kurama's and Naruto's Chakra merge together and become one, thats just the Natural proccess of being a Jinchuriki. But going into KCM mode requires Kurama and Naruto working together as one, not just his chakra. If that was the case Naruto would have been able to use it a long time ago. This may be complicated as I simplified my thread slightly to save space, I did say that KCM was merely achieved by Naruto merging his chakra with Kurama, but the proccess is slightly more complicated than that.
Ill do some thinking on this and update the thread once I have a better answer, but this is an interesting find as I didnt know about this before.
Good reply given by Blast
Clones? Who is talking about Clones... I am NOT talking about why Naruto does not use clones, I am talking about why Naruto no longer uses clones in conjuction with SM like he did against Pain.
Now I suppose your point is to say that Naurto has soo much chakra that losing 66% of his chakra is not a big deal to him, but I disagree, during the Great Ninja War did do alot but at the same time he also had breaks inbetween fights to regain his chakra. Running 100 miles in 1 day nonstop is alot different than running 100 miles over a week with breaks inbetween.
Proof of Clone Draining Chakra
You must be registered for see images
Rai-kage Bunshin = Lighting-Shadow Clone
In this scan where kakashi fought off Pain he opened with a lighting-Shadow Clone, afterwards Choiji's dad says it was an impressive feat but what about your chakra reserves, and kakashi responds by saying he has about half his chakra left.
Now we already know that Chidori doesnt consume alot of chakra, we have seen Kakashi use it far too many times without being drained of half of his chakra. So then why when mixing a lighting style with a clone does he suddenly lose HALF his entire chakra? Because when the clone was killed the chakra was not returned to him.
One thing to keep in mind is that Kakashi's lighting clone technique was a shadow clone combination with a lighting technique. We know that it is a shadow clone because it can interact with the objects around it and cast jutsu. Here is a link backing up this fact: [
You must be registered for see links
]
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