[Fear] Rikudo's Lineage Exposed [Theory]

[FearxDeath]

interesting

indeed!

Great Theory Bro.... =D =D

Thanks!!

 

[boshans]

I don't know about the Hyuga part...why would he need the Byakugan to find out the secrets of chakra? Why not him finding out the secrets of chakra with his Rinnegan? I don't know what you think, but I don't see how he didn't have the Rinnegan before he faced the Juubi. I don't see how he could solo the Juubi without the Rinnegan first. Byakugan wouldn't be enough. I don't know, I think he was Uzumaki, and created the Hyuga clan along with Senju/Uchiha. Maybe he had a real child with a women before he beat the Juubi, whose descendants became Hyuga, and the Elder/Younger son were made with Creation of All Things after he beat the Juubi. That or the Elder son's descendants became Hyuga first, then Uchiha. Or a branch split off and became Hyuga while the main line became Uchiha. All I know for sure is he has to have something to do with the Uzumaki's, there is to much of the same symbolism between the two clans for there not to be. Everything else though is up for grabs, and I don't think Kishi will ever elaborate on it sadly. He never elaborates on anything really, yeah he gives a short description of some things, but unless it's a main main point of the story, he won't.

 

[Honord Sage]

The rikudo isn't from any clans.

Clan is Celtic for extended Family including in laws and people who work for Your family. And sines the SO6P created Ninjutsu He had to crated the Ninja Clan system too and be the head of His own Clan.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Excellent thread and very well elaborated and described

I am fan of Sage of six paths being Half Uzumaki and Hyuuga myself.

That is order of events in Naruto I believe:

• 
  
  
  Era of Creation​
• God of Gods(buddha) Creates Planet-> Creation of Juubi by God of Gods->Juubi creates life on Planet and become guard of nature-> God of Gods creates humankind
  
  Begining of Humankind​
• Humankind Wars era->Humans learn to use weapons(Samurai era without chakra)->Creation of Priests clans to prevent wars
  
  Sage of six paths's and Juubi Time​
• Birth Sage of six paths->Sage of six paths discover chakra(by Byakugan or by religion somehow)->Sage of six paths creates future Hyuuga and Uzumaki clan techniques->Humans wars corrupted World too much, destroying nature in process->Begining of Juubi's wrath-> Sage of six paths taught humankind about chakra trying to stop wars somehow->Samurai begin to use chakra so humankind wars became worse->Juubi brings destruction to humankind-> Parents and entire family of Sage of six paths after learning chakra discover that they are Uzumaki and Hyuuga(active Byakugan)-> Sage of six paths confronted Juubi trying to convince him to forgive humankind or give another chance->Sage of six paths become Juubi jinchurki after long battle->Many people discovers their KKG somehow->Sage of six paths Bykugan corrupted by Juubi's eye transforms into Rinnengan and Sage's Uzumaki body corrupted by Juubi's cells transforms into Senjuu body->Sage of six paths creates his two sons via Creation off all things->birth to Senjuu and Uchiha ancestors/Hyuuga and Uzumaki breeding and continue their lineage-> Sealing Juubi in moon and death of Sage of six paths
  
  Senjuu and Uchiha' time​
• Battle between Senjuu and Uchiha ancestors->Formation of many shinobi clans->Birth of Current Senjuu and Uchiha clans-> wars between clans in name of feudal words->Hashirama and Madara times
  
  New World of shinobi ​

What do you think about it ?
Please share your thoughts

 

[osba]

if that were to be so, then there should have been less red haired uzumaki's. i had a discussion about this with derpobito once.. the sons were created by jutsu, not by ***.

You must be registered for see images

as you can see, the uzumaki's red hair isnt a recessive gen, (in real life it is) so your right.

unless his father is a true uzumaki and just had 2 reccesive genes, one for black one for red, and chance made him have black hair.. but uzumaki's haircolour couldnt possibly be a reccesive gene.. because then there wouldve been way more black hair-coloured uzumaki's.

so if its a dominant gene, there is more chance for so6p to have had black, yellow or whatever colour hair than chance he had red.. else we would have seen the sons and senju/uchiha having red hair often too..

start reading the discussion here, and it will all make sense.

 

[FearxDeath]

if that were to be so, then there should have been less red haired uzumaki's. i had a discussion about this with derpobito once.. the sons were created by jutsu, not by ***.



start reading the discussion here, and it will all make sense.

1) Why would there have been less red haired Uzumaki, you dont explain why you say this.

2) I too agree that the 2 sons were created via the "Creation of all things" jutsu, nothing knew here

3) everything after that first sentence made no sense, x__x, excuse my ignorance, if you can elaborate so I can better understand you.

I don't know about the Hyuga part...why would he need the Byakugan to find out the secrets of chakra? Why not him finding out the secrets of chakra with his Rinnegan? I don't know what you think, but I don't see how he didn't have the Rinnegan before he faced the Juubi. I don't see how he could solo the Juubi without the Rinnegan first. Byakugan wouldn't be enough. I don't know, I think he was Uzumaki, and created the Hyuga clan along with Senju/Uchiha. Maybe he had a real child with a women before he beat the Juubi, whose descendants became Hyuga, and the Elder/Younger son were made with Creation of All Things after he beat the Juubi. That or the Elder son's descendants became Hyuga first, then Uchiha. Or a branch split off and became Hyuga while the main line became Uchiha. All I know for sure is he has to have something to do with the Uzumaki's, there is to much of the same symbolism between the two clans for there not to be. Everything else though is up for grabs, and I don't think Kishi will ever elaborate on it sadly. He never elaborates on anything really, yeah he gives a short description of some things, but unless it's a main main point of the story, he won't.

To put it simply, the Rinnegan is a KKG, and for the SO6P to have been born with it that would mean that he had to have inherited it from someone, all of which is kinda possible, but unlikely. But at that point it is just conjecture, the only difference is I have a little evidence that supports the fact that he gained the Rinnegan, while you have no evidence to support the idea that he was born with it.

 

[FearxDeath]

Excellent thread and very well elaborated and described

I am fan of Sage of six paths being Half Uzumaki and Hyuuga myself.

Spoiler

That is order of events in Naruto I believe:

• 
  
  
  Era of Creation​
• God of Gods(buddha) Creates Planet-> Creation of Juubi by God of Gods->Juubi creates life on Planet and become guard of nature-> God of Gods creates humankind
  
  Begining of Humankind​
• Humankind Wars era->Humans learn to use weapons(Samurai era without chakra)->Creation of Priests clans to prevent wars
  
  Sage of six paths's and Juubi Time​
• Birth Sage of six paths->Sage of six paths discover chakra(by Byakugan or by religion somehow)->Sage of six paths creates future Hyuuga and Uzumaki clan techniques->Humans wars corrupted World too much, destroying nature in process->Begining of Juubi's wrath-> Sage of six paths taught humankind about chakra trying to stop wars somehow->Samurai begin to use chakra so humankind wars became worse->Juubi brings destruction to humankind-> Parents and entire family of Sage of six paths after learning chakra discover that they are Uzumaki and Hyuuga(active Byakugan)-> Sage of six paths confronted Juubi trying to convince him to forgive humankind or give another chance->Sage of six paths become Juubi jinchurki after long battle->Many people discovers their KKG somehow->Sage of six paths Bykugan corrupted by Juubi's eye transforms into Rinnengan and Sage's Uzumaki body corrupted by Juubi's cells transforms into Senjuu body->Sage of six paths creates his two sons via Creation off all things->birth to Senjuu and Uchiha ancestors/Hyuuga and Uzumaki breeding and continue their lineage-> Sealing Juubi in moon and death of Sage of six paths
  
  Senjuu and Uchiha' time​
• Battle between Senjuu and Uchiha ancestors->Formation of many shinobi clans->Birth of Current Senjuu and Uchiha clans-> wars between clans in name of feudal words->Hashirama and Madara times
  
  New World of shinobi ​

What do you think about it ?
Please share your thoughts

1) Manga says that the Juubi created the planet and not "budha"

2) "Era of Creation" just gonna disagree with that whole section in general lol x__x

3) "Begining of Humankind" I agree with everything except for "Creation of Priests clans to prevent wars"

"Sage of six paths's and Juubi Time"

4) The SO6P didnt create any Hyuga techniques, nor do I believe he created any Uzumaki techniques other than a few power sealing techniques like the RDS and the 8 trigram seal.

5) "Samurai begin to use chakra so humankind wars became worse"??? What?

I stopped reading after "Parents and entire family of Sage of six paths after learning chakra discover that they are Uzumaki and Hyuuga(active Byakugan)" Discovered that they are Uzumaki and Hyuga? LOL Are you trolling me or did you really want me to take this seriously? Not trying to be offensive if you arent, but its pretty funny if you are x__x

 

[osba]

1) Why would there have been less red haired Uzumaki, you dont explain why you say this.

2) I too agree that the 2 sons were created via the "Creation of all things" jutsu, nothing knew here

3) everything after that first sentence made no sense, x__x, excuse my ignorance, if you can elaborate so I can better understand you.




To put it simply, the Rinnegan is a KKG, and for the SO6P to have been born with it that would mean that he had to have inherited it from someone, all of which is kinda possible, but unlikely. But at that point it is just conjecture, the only difference is I have a little evidence that supports the fact that he gained the Rinnegan, while you have no evidence to support the idea that he was born with it.

yeah sorry about that, i'm bad at explaining.. that kind of stuff comes natural to me >.<

so as you could see, nagato's parents had red and black hair.. the uzumaki clan trait is red hair and if you believe derpobito's theory (i'm believing it but its more a speculation than real belief) that the so6p had red hair, then you would find that because nagato's father had black hair, the red hair must be a dominant gen, other from what it is in the real world.
so if that dominant red gen wouldve been around at the time of so6p, and the senju and uchiha would have derrived from a mixture of uzumaki and hyuga(?) then there should have been more red haired senju's and uchiha's.. instead we have yet to see a single one of them having red hair.
so OR so6p wasnt an uzumaki (i believe in derp's theory untill proof pops up that so6p didnt have red hair) OR the uchiha and senju were not derived from a mixture of uzumaki and hyuga(?) but from the creation of all things jutsu, to perfectly balance the one power into two, greatly influenced by the ten tails.
personally however i would believe in your theory minus the hyuga part.. (i think its foolish to think that there couldnt just be 2 sepperate ocular powers ^.^) IF it wasnt for this manga slide derp pointed out to me:

You must be registered for see images

TL;DR:
red hair = dominant gen
uchiha and senju should thus have more red hair if derived from so6pxhyuga.
look at picture .
RIP derpobito.
dogs ftw.
orochimaru for endboss.

 

[FearxDeath]

yeah sorry about that, i'm bad at explaining.. that kind of stuff comes natural to me >.<

so as you could see, nagato's parents had red and black hair.. the uzumaki clan trait is red hair and if you believe derpobito's theory (i'm believing it but its more a speculation than real belief) that the so6p had red hair, then you would find that because nagato's father had black hair, the red hair must be a dominant gen, other from what it is in the real world.
so if that dominant red gen wouldve been around at the time of so6p, and the senju and uchiha would have derrived from a mixture of uzumaki and hyuga(?) then there should have been more red haired senju's and uchiha's.. instead we have yet to see a single one of them having red hair.
so OR so6p wasnt an uzumaki (i believe in derp's theory untill proof pops up that so6p didnt have red hair) OR the uchiha and senju were not derived from a mixture of uzumaki and hyuga(?) but from the creation of all things jutsu, to perfectly balance the one power into two, greatly influenced by the ten tails.
personally however i would believe in your theory minus the hyuga part.. (i think its foolish to think that there couldnt just be 2 sepperate ocular powers ^.^) IF it wasnt for this manga slide derp pointed out to me:

You must be registered for see images

TL;DR:
red hair = dominant gen
uchiha and senju should thus have more red hair if derived from so6pxhyuga.
look at picture .
RIP derpobito.
dogs ftw.
orochimaru for endboss.

Here's the rub:

1) You dont take into account the fact that Minato had blonde hair, Kushina had Red Hair, Naruto has blonde hair. I dont think Red Hair is a dominant trait rather it is a mixed trait. Rr as oppose to blonde/yellow hair which truly is dominant YY and black hair which would be bb. If the SO6P was mixed then the red hair could be removed as easily as him marrying or one of the sons marrying someone blonde, whch would be YY x Rr = 2YR, 2Yr. Each case would result in a yellow haired kid.

2) You assume that because Nagato has red hair then red hair is a dominant trait. But it could just as easily be reccessive. rr x bb = 4br, giving a 50/50 chance for the offspring to be either black or red hair.

3) If SO6P is already half hyuga then he already has a reccessive b, making him either Rb or rb, making the new punnet square rb x yy = 2rY, 2bY or Rb x YY = 2RY x Yb, either way there is a 50% chance for a black haired kid. you can take this further by crossing him with a black haired person and you still find a 50% chance for a black haired kid. Which means both sons had a 50% chance to get black hair.

4) Long story short, was breed out of the family, which becomes even more likely if it is infact a recessive gene, which I have shown to be a possibility.

5) Sons were created via Jutsu, the SO6P was able to pick and chose whether a son recieved his eyes and whether one recieved his body. I dont find it hard to believe that he could have changed their hair color as well.

6) Didnt understand the any of the part after this "yet to see a single one of them having red hair."

7) Very creative reply though, I have yet to see so much science taken into account before, ^__^ congratz

 

[Oblargagh]

We know that the Byakugan and Sharingan gets passed on to offspring.

The only dojutsu that is shown not to be passed on to offspring is the Rinnegan. We have the entire Sharingan clan and the entire Hyuuga clan as examples of where dojutsu always passes to offspring.

I believe the Rinnegan was created by Juubi chakra and that it is the only of its kind. However, one can unlock it like Madara did.

 

[osba]

Here's the rub:

1) You dont take into account the fact that Minato had blonde hair, Kushina had Red Hair, Naruto has blonde hair. I dont think Red Hair is a dominant trait rather it is a mixed trait. Rr as oppose to blonde/yellow hair which truly is dominant YY and black hair which would be bb. If the SO6P was mixed then the red hair could be removed as easily as him marrying or one of the sons marrying someone blonde, whch would be YY x Rr = 2YR, 2Yr. Each case would result in a yellow haired kid.

i wish mito would have had children, that wouldve made it alot easier for us ^.^
red hair colour works diffrent from other colours IRL.. but i guess we will see what happens

 

[FearxDeath]

i wish mito would have had children, that wouldve made it alot easier for us ^.^
red hair colour works diffrent from other colours IRL.. but i guess we will see what happens

Well in real life black hair is the dominant gene with all other hair colors being reccesive lol, so ya IRL things are different. But here is something I was thinking about. Nagato doesnt have red hair, it is more dark red when compared to the other uzumaki. Perhaps he has co-dominance, which is like when you take a red flower and a white flower and get a pink flower. In his case he got dark red hair, x__x quite interesting notion you have introduced to Naruto x__x, and once again everything becomes 1000x more complicated.

 

[FearxDeath]

We know that the Byakugan and Sharingan gets passed on to offspring.

The only dojutsu that is shown not to be passed on to offspring is the Rinnegan. We have the entire Sharingan clan and the entire Hyuuga clan as examples of where dojutsu always passes to offspring.

I believe the Rinnegan was created by Juubi chakra and that it is the only of its kind. However, one can unlock it like Madara did.

There have only been 3 people in the Manga history with a Rinnegan, only 1 of them had kids and those kids weren't conventional, therefore there hasnt been a child born with a Rinnegan because here havent been any children born by Parents with the Rinnegan... The absences of evidence is not the evidence of absences.

 

[boshans]

1) Why would there have been less red haired Uzumaki, you dont explain why you say this.

2) I too agree that the 2 sons were created via the "Creation of all things" jutsu, nothing knew here

3) everything after that first sentence made no sense, x__x, excuse my ignorance, if you can elaborate so I can better understand you.




To put it simply, the Rinnegan is a KKG, and for the SO6P to have been born with it that would mean that he had to have inherited it from someone, all of which is kinda possible, but unlikely. But at that point it is just conjecture, the only difference is I have a little evidence that supports the fact that he gained the Rinnegan, while you have no evidence to support the idea that he was born with it.

I know what you mean, I agree with the KG, but also that is how it works for people in the current timeline of the Naruto universe. This is the sage we are talking about though, so who knows, it doesn't definitely mean that he had to have inherited the Rinnegan from someone if he had it before beating the Juubi. What I'm trying to say is he could have gotten it as a "fluke", KKG started with him basically, an anomaly, he didn't have to inherit it from anyone. I don't know, there is not nearly enough info right now to accurately form a theory I don't think, there are too many possibilities where any of them can be correct. We know he found the secrets of chakra, but don't know if he did before the Rinnegan, or because of the Rinnegan. We don't know if he started preaching/teaching about chakra before or after he beat the Juubi. I still find it hard to believe he solo'd the Juubi, with the Juubi in it's final form to, without the Rinnegan, even if he did know the secret of chakra. We can assume he had Sage Mode at least when he fought the Juubi, but that wouldn't be enough. Also, how would he have split the Juubi up without the Rinnegan? If he got the Rinnegan after he became it's Jinchuuriki, why would there still be a body of the Juubi left to seal into the moon? Every tailed beast that becomes a Jin, their body doesn't stay there when they get absorbed into the person. To me, I think it would make more sense if he split up the Juubi's chakra first into the tailed beasts, then absorbed all of them at once, then used Chibaku Tensei to create the moon with the Juubi's empty shell. He didn't technically become the Jin of the Juubi in its one form, if he took all of the Juubi's chakra away with the path that takes chakra, and split it up then put it inside of himself in the form of the tailed beasts, there would still be a body of the Juubi left. If he just absorbed the Juubi whole, and after he became its Jin split its chakra up inside of himself, the body wouldn't be there. He would have needed the Rinnegan before facing the Juubi to take the Juubi's chakra from him, split it up, and then absorb it into himself in the form of the tailed beasts, and then create the moon. I would like to know what you think about how did all of this and in what order.

Here's the rub:

1) You dont take into account the fact that Minato had blonde hair, Kushina had Red Hair, Naruto has blonde hair. I dont think Red Hair is a dominant trait rather it is a mixed trait. Rr as oppose to blonde/yellow hair which truly is dominant YY and black hair which would be bb. If the SO6P was mixed then the red hair could be removed as easily as him marrying or one of the sons marrying someone blonde, whch would be YY x Rr = 2YR, 2Yr. Each case would result in a yellow haired kid.

2) You assume that because Nagato has red hair then red hair is a dominant trait. But it could just as easily be reccessive. rr x bb = 4br, giving a 50/50 chance for the offspring to be either black or red hair.

3) If SO6P is already half hyuga then he already has a reccessive b, making him either Rb or rb, making the new punnet square rb x yy = 2rY, 2bY or Rb x YY = 2RY x Yb, either way there is a 50% chance for a black haired kid. you can take this further by crossing him with a black haired person and you still find a 50% chance for a black haired kid. Which means both sons had a 50% chance to get black hair.

4) Long story short, was breed out of the family, which becomes even more likely if it is infact a recessive gene, which I have shown to be a possibility.

5) Sons were created via Jutsu, the SO6P was able to pick and chose whether a son recieved his eyes and whether one recieved his body. I dont find it hard to believe that he could have changed their hair color as well.

6) Didnt understand the any of the part after this "yet to see a single one of them having red hair."

7) Very creative reply though, I have yet to see so much science taken into account before, ^__^ congratz

I don't think it really matters all to much, but the correct translation for that scan is "One God, seeking stability, split into Light and Shadow. And it is these two polar opposites operating together that gives rise to all things in the universe." We don't really know who the God is that it mentions, but I don't know, I think it changes the meaning of the scan, even if just a tiny tiny bit.

 

[FearxDeath]

I know what you mean, I agree with the KG, but also that is how it works for people in the current timeline of the Naruto universe. This is the sage we are talking about though, so who knows, it doesn't definitely mean that he had to have inherited the Rinnegan from someone if he had it before beating the Juubi. What I'm trying to say is he could have gotten it as a "fluke", KKG started with him basically, an anomaly, he didn't have to inherit it from anyone. I don't know, there is not nearly enough info right now to accurately form a theory I don't think, there are too many possibilities where any of them can be correct. We know he found the secrets of chakra, but don't know if he did before the Rinnegan, or because of the Rinnegan. We don't know if he started preaching/teaching about chakra before or after he beat the Juubi. I still find it hard to believe he solo'd the Juubi, with the Juubi in it's final form to, without the Rinnegan, even if he did know the secret of chakra. We can assume he had Sage Mode at least when he fought the Juubi, but that wouldn't be enough. Also, how would he have split the Juubi up without the Rinnegan? If he got the Rinnegan after he became it's Jinchuuriki, why would there still be a body of the Juubi left to seal into the moon? Every tailed beast that becomes a Jin, their body doesn't stay there when they get absorbed into the person. To me, I think it would make more sense if he split up the Juubi's chakra first into the tailed beasts, then absorbed all of them at once, then used Chibaku Tensei to create the moon with the Juubi's empty shell. He didn't technically become the Jin of the Juubi in its one form, if he took all of the Juubi's chakra away with the path that takes chakra, and split it up then put it inside of himself in the form of the tailed beasts, there would still be a body of the Juubi left. If he just absorbed the Juubi whole, and after he became its Jin split its chakra up inside of himself, the body wouldn't be there. He would have needed the Rinnegan before facing the Juubi to take the Juubi's chakra from him, split it up, and then absorb it into himself in the form of the tailed beasts, and then create the moon. I would like to know what you think about how did all of this and in what order.



I don't think it really matters all to much, but the correct translation for that scan is "One God, seeking stability, split into Light and Shadow. And it is these two polar opposites operating together that gives rise to all things in the universe." We don't really know who the God is that it mentions, but I don't know, I think it changes the meaning of the scan, even if just a tiny tiny bit.

To your first paragraph I would agree that it is conjecture, and all that is left at this point is what is reffered to as the most reasonable alternative. So one must ask ourselves whether it is more likely that the time of the laws around the time of the SO6P were the same as what we see now and how likely it is that he had a byakugan, and then ask how likely it is that the Rinnegan just appeared out of nowhere with no rhythm or reason. To me mine is more likely but who knows. At that point we just gotta agree to disbelieve.


I don't think it really matters all to much, but the correct translation for that scan is "One God, seeking stability, split into Light and Shadow. And it is these two polar opposites operating together that gives rise to all things in the universe." We don't really know who the God is that it mentions, but I don't know, I think it changes the meaning of the scan, even if just a tiny tiny bit.

I dont see what the above had to do with the qoute you gave of me, was that a misqoute?