Edo Hashirama can't beat current Edo Madara

[Draphsin]

Hashi most likely knows sealing jutsu so in an edo vs edo...the one with sealing jutsu wins

Madara most likely has human path, if that isnt valid then hiashi's sealing techs arent either, because he hasnt shown any just as madara hasnt...

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

Madara most likely has human path, if that isnt valid then hiashi's sealing techs arent either, because he hasnt shown any just as madara hasnt...

I said MOST LIKELY since he always carries a scroll and his wife was an uzumaki

 

[Everztar]

Madara doesn't have the Juubi, they're about to loose control of it... If Obito doesn't resurrect Madara soon! And another thing... not ONLY madara was the one who got new powers and training between their last fight and now... what makes you think that madara became stronger while Hashirama was just chilling in a couch drinking beer and giving up his life as a shinobi? lol.

 

[Draphsin]

I said MOST LIKELY since he always carries a scroll and his wife was an uzumaki

So did I, Madara always has the rinnegan, he knows just as much about his eyes as hashi does that scroll

 

[TheSages456]

My claim is true and i will show you why

1. lol, this isnt impressive, EMS madara fought a full 100% power hashi. That level of power is weak compared to an edo madara thats been improved far beyond his prime

2. Wrong, read the

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...Madara is talking in the past tense, meaning that hashi was the only one at the time who can stop him. He was talking about raising hashi from the dead because the kage were fodder compared to him, and he was trying to lower their morale....Madara never states that hashi is stronger than his current self.....

3. Just because madara's strongest power is PS doesnt mean that thats the only power he can use....If that was the case then he shouldnt be able to control kurama and PS at the same time. Those are two separate powers, yes he's using them both. If he can do this then I see no reason why he cant use multiple mokuton clones to produce PS (unlimited chakra). Give me a reason why he cant do this with a reason other than "because he hasnt shown it" and ill listen to you U_U

4. lol you're right, and the end result was that madara survived that fight.....The fact that hashi got that damaged while fighting EMS madara at full power proves without a doubt that his edo form will lose because he is A) not at 100% power while madara is improved past his full power, and B) he's not aware of the rinnegan and all of its abilities, or the fact that madara possesses mokuton.

Edo madara wins XD



1. Wrong, read the scan.....

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Hashi was the only one who could stop him. Meaning that there was never a stronger person than him other than hashi, but he's not on this planet anymore....You cant weasel your way around this one, it was past tense and if you dont think so then i think you need to go back for some extra ESL lessons

And are you dumb? hashi is lower than 100% power, and madara as improved far beyond his prime, you're telling me that their powers are the same as that time at the VoTE???? You must be moronic.....seriously.....

2. LOL shattered heaven (bansho tenin) is literally used simultaneously with susanoo.......

here

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it means that the only person who could ever stop him(hashirama) is no longer there to do so. its easy to comprehend. your own bias prevents you from understanding.

madara wasnt improved far beyond his prime. he was simply completed beyond his prime. the difference between ems & edo madara isnt as large as you would like to think. edo madara is a rikudo & ems madara is purely uchiha. power wise, they have the same full power which makes them the same madara that hashirama beat regardless of how much you dont like it.

shattered heaven is its own move. i dont know why you think it was bansho tenin. madara cant use susano & rinnegan techs at the same time and he stated this himself.

 

[Draphsin]

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it means that the only person who could ever stop him(hashirama) is no longer there to do so. its easy to comprehend. your own bias prevents you from understanding.

madara wasnt improved far beyond his prime. he was simply completed beyond his prime. the difference between ems & edo madara isnt as large as you would like to think. edo madara is a rikudo & ems madara is purely uchiha. power wise, they have the same full power which makes them the same madara that hashirama beat regardless of how much you dont like it.

shattered heaven is its own move. i dont know why you think it was bansho tenin. madara cant use susano & rinnegan techs at the same time and he stated this himself.

Simple, petty rebuttals

1. lol more like your ignorance prevents you from understanding.... Give me 1 reason why that translation > mine? Idk about you but i checked multiple sources and couldnt find that scan so its either outdated or wrong U_U

2.

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, manga > you, madara's edo tensei form > EMS madara, fact. Edo hashi < living hashi, fact.

3. lol then you admit that madara can use meteors along with PS, whether its a rinnegan tech or not (It's bansho tenin, its blatantly obvious) he used it along with susanoo meaning that he can do that with no problems. And btw thats already more than what EMS madara can do so that just makes him stronger than his prime again

 

[TheSages456]

Simple, petty rebuttals

1. lol more like your ignorance prevents you from understanding.... Give me 1 reason why that translation > mine? Idk about you but i checked multiple sources and couldnt find that scan so its either outdated or wrong U_U

2.

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, manga > you, madara's edo tensei form > EMS madara, fact. Edo hashi < living hashi, fact.

3. lol then you admit that madara can use meteors along with PS, whether its a rinnegan tech or not (It's bansho tenin, its blatantly obvious) he used it along with susanoo meaning that he can do that with no problems. And btw thats already more than what EMS madara can do so that just makes him stronger than his prime again

i dont think you even believe in the crap you are saying.

1. my translation is the VIZ translation so its better than yours by default. they mean the same thing basically. your interpetation is horseshit however & goes against whats implied.

2. its says that madara is even better than in his golden age. i dont see where it says that madara is "far, far, far, far, far, far, far stronger" like your claiming.

3. i never saw him doing that with perfect susano. as shown in the manga, he needs that form of susano specifically. the meteor is its own move. is not related to bansho tenin & madara said himself that he cant use rinnegan techs with susano.

oh btw, madara already showed the readers how weak that rock is when PS flicked its wrist & turned the meteor to dust.

 

[Draphsin]

i dont think you even believe in the crap you are saying.

1. my translation is the VIZ translation so its better than yours by default. they mean the same thing basically. your interpetation is horseshit however & goes against whats implied.

2. its says that madara is even better than in his golden age. i dont see where it says that madara is "far, far, far, far, far, far, far stronger" like your claiming.

3. i never saw him doing that with perfect susano. as shown in the manga, he needs that form of susano specifically. the meteor is its own move. is not related to bansho tenin & madara said himself that he cant use rinnegan techs with susano.

oh btw, madara already showed the readers how weak that rock is when PS flicked its wrist & turned the meteor to dust.

Aww someones getting mad
Show me the source, I've got more than two translations saying otherwise, and they dont mean the same thing as yours. Is english your second language? I only speak English and have lived with it my whole life, I can tell the difference between the interpretations and the translation you provided is not the same as mine. Therefore we have reached an impasse with this point, arguing it any further is useless U_U

So im right, edo madara > ems madara as stated by manga, i never said that he was far far far better you are being ridiculous as usual . If hashi is weaker than before, and madara is stronger than before, and hashi couldnt even kill madara last time and ended up in a terrible position. Then tell me how he's gonna stand a chance now?? lol

Why cant he use a clone to do it then? BM is naruto's full power but he can still use clones, restricting the use of techniques that madara has isnt going to help you anyways, I already proved that edo madara > ems madara so theres nothing more to discuss here.

 

[Percy Jackson]

What i can see is that both has the same meaning..

Also at the VOTE madara bring 9tail on his side, hashirama don't bring any juubi how was that a fair fight?
If a guy won that fight, that guy must be much stronger then madara.

EMS madara with 100% 9tail > edo madara without 10tail.

The only reason why it's hard so tell who will win is because.. hashirama is weaker then they fought at the VOTE

 

[Draphsin]

What i can see is that both has the same meaning..

Also at the VOTE madara bring 9tail on his side, hashirama don't bring any juubi how was that a fair fight?
If a guy won that fight, that guy must be much stronger then madara.

EMS madara with 100% 9tail > edo madara without 10tail.

The only reason why it's hard so tell who will win is because.. hashirama is weaker then they fought at the VOTE

Manga disproves you, edo madara > ems madara

And kurama is ems madara's power, he can summon it....

 

[TheSages456]

Aww someones getting mad
Show me the source, I've got more than two translations saying otherwise, and they dont mean the same thing as yours. Is english your second language? I only speak English and have lived with it my whole life, I can tell the difference between the interpretations and the translation you provided is not the same as mine. Therefore we have reached an impasse with this point, arguing it any further is useless U_U

So im right, edo madara > ems madara as stated by manga, i never said that he was far far far better you are being ridiculous as usual . If hashi is weaker than before, and madara is stronger than before, and hashi couldnt even kill madara last time and ended up in a terrible position. Then tell me how he's gonna stand a chance now?? lol

Why cant he use a clone to do it then? BM is naruto's full power but he can still use clones, restricting the use of techniques that madara has isnt going to help you anyways, I already proved that edo madara > ems madara so theres nothing more to discuss here.

you are in denial. that is the viz translation. the translations you posted mean the same thing. find it in this thread if you want:

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you lost on this point.

kabuto said that madara was better than before. better=/=stronger. the manga stated that edo madara is better than ems madara not stronger. edo madaras full power is perfect susano & ems madaras full power is perfect susano. this is stated by madara himself. you lost on this point.

madaras clones only have the feats of using V3 susano & genjutsu. i dont remember the manga saying that edo madara has more power than ems madara. he is only better due to having a more complete body. madara already showed how weak his rikudo power & his mokuton is compared to his full power. those techs arent even a subject of debate as they are too weak to faze hashirama. you lost on this point.

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

So did I, Madara always has the rinnegan, he knows just as much about his eyes as hashi does that scroll

Lol what do you mean he knows about the rinnengan as much as Hashi knows about his scroll???? Like madara said he got the eyes RIGHT before he died while Hashi has used his scrolls for years like we saw

 

[KidGamer65]

Madara already stated that Hashirama can beat him. Only someone who can't understand basic English will disagree.

"Only Hashirama could ever stop him and he is no longer with us."

Why do you think he took the time to tell them that Hashirama is no longer with us after telling us he is the only one who can stop him? He is obviously implying with his statement that if Hashirama were here he could stop Madara.

"And" obviously has the meaning of "but" in this sentence. Hashirama is the only one who could ever stop him, but he is no longer here with us.

 

[NagazuDead]

Hashirama's Mokuton is much stronger, i think.

 

[Percy Jackson]

huh? Kurama is EMS madara's power? just because he can control kurama that dose't mean it was his power. otherwise all bijuu is hashirama's power as well? at one point it's been stated that hashirama took control of kurama from madara.. dose that make hashirama's power is also kurama?

 

[Draphsin]

you are in denial. that is the viz translation. the translations you posted mean the same thing. find it in this thread if you want:

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you lost on this point.

kabuto said that madara was better than before. better=/=stronger. the manga stated that edo madara is better than ems madara not stronger. edo madaras full power is perfect susano & ems madaras full power is perfect susano. this is stated by madara himself. you lost on this point.

madaras clones only have the feats of using V3 susano & genjutsu. i dont remember the manga saying that edo madara has more power than ems madara. he is only better due to having a more complete body. madara already showed how weak his rikudo power & his mokuton is compared to his full power. those techs arent even a subject of debate as they are too weak to faze hashirama. you lost on this point.

1. They dont mean the same thing, one is in past tense and one isnt. I told you there's no winning with this one so quit while you're ahead

2. Now you're in denial. Better >>> Stronger, tsunade is by far stronger than madara, naruto, obito, nagato....the list goes on. Does that in any way mean she is "better" than them? You actually lost on this one, sorry pal

Edo madara is "better", not "stronger" than ems madara, as you've already stated, that means that he is on another tier than his previous strength. End of discussion

3. lol such a fail. So just because he didnt need to use clones while in PS you think he cant use them? Thats like saying he cant weave signs while in susanoo...That doesnt even make sense, are you seriously reading what you just wrote down while thinking that you made a valid case? Half of the kage fight was cut out and that was when he was being serious, without his gumbai too. He stomped the 5 kage in no time flat, but look how long he was fighting them, on screen. Madara was playing with his new abilities and he was gonna crush them finally with PS. He had no reason to go all out. If you say that madara cant weave signs while in susanoo then you have lost on this point

Lol what do you mean he knows about the rinnengan as much as Hashi knows about his scroll???? Like madara said he got the eyes RIGHT before he died while Hashi has used his scrolls for years like we saw

We already know that madara was alive years after he awakened the rinnegan, nagato was a child when he got the eyes. And how do you think nagato learned his rinnegan abilities? did he learn them from the scroll? or from obito? either way it originates back to madara...Saying he doesnt have the rinnegan abilities is like saying hashi hasnt figured out all of the techniques on that scroll, and those techniques could include sealing techniques.

huh? Kurama is EMS madara's power? just because he can control kurama that dose't mean it was his power. otherwise all bijuu is hashirama's power as well? at one point it's been stated that hashirama took control of kurama from madara.. dose that make hashirama's power is also kurama?

Hashi cant willingly control kurama like madara can, madara can summon and control kurama like jiraiya and his toads, or oro and his snakes.

 

[TheSages456]

1. They dont mean the same thing, one is in past tense and one isnt. I told you there's no winning with this one so quit while your ahead

2. Now you're in denial. Better >>> Stronger, tsunade is by far stronger than madara, naruto, obito, nagato....the list goes on. Does that in any way mean she is "better" than them? You actually lost on this one, sorry pal

Edo madara is "better", not "stronger" than ems madara, as you've already stated, that means that he is on another tier than his previous strength. End of discussion

3. lol such a fail. So just because he didnt need to use clones while in PS you think he cant use them? Thats like saying he cant weave signs while in susanoo...That doesnt even make sense, are you seriously reading what you just wrote down and thinking that you made a valid case? Half of the kage fight was cut out and that was when he was being serious, without his gumbai too. He stomped the 5 kage in no time flat, but look how long he was fighting them, on screen. Madara was playing with his new abilities and he was gonna crush them finally with PS. He had no reason to go all out. If you say that madara cant weave signs while in susanoo then you have lost on this point

1. my translation is the VIZ so you lose by default. they mean the same thing. you obviously cant properly read English. whether or not you want to accept it isnt my problem.

2. madara is far stronger than tsunade. madara is more powerful than her. you're just talking about physical strength. if you think that tsunade can take out mountains then you're an idiot.
edo madara is more complete than ems madara & that makes him better, not his power.

3. madara can weave all the signs he wants in susano. he still doesnt have the feats of using clones, meteors or mokuton in susano. you are giving madara abilities that you want him to have, not the abilities the manga has shown for him. madara said that PS is his full power. 1 swing of a PS blade>edo madara using the weakest techs in his arsenal.

 

[Founding Fire Shadow]

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it means that the only person who could ever stop him(hashirama) is no longer there to do so. its easy to comprehend. your own bias prevents you from understanding.

madara wasnt improved far beyond his prime. he was simply completed beyond his prime. the difference between ems & edo madara isnt as large as you would like to think. edo madara is a rikudo & ems madara is purely uchiha. power wise, they have the same full power which makes them the same madara that hashirama beat regardless of how much you dont like it.

shattered heaven is its own move. i dont know why you think it was bansho tenin. madara cant use susano & rinnegan techs at the same time and he stated this himself.

The context of Madara's statement depends on the translation.

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Even still, Madara was speaking in the past tense because Hashirama to his knowledge was dead, as Madara himself notes in the next page of that particular chapter, Hashirama has been established as the superior of the two in the past, while Madara did gain the Rinnegan & a portion of Hashirama's Mokuton, he also lost the ability to summon Kurama at full strength, so in reality he just traded powers, so I would imagine they are more or less equals as of right now.shodaimeicon:

 

[TheSages456]

The context of Madara's statement depends on the translation.

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Even still, Madara was speaking in the past tense because Hashirama to his knowledge was dead, as Madara himself notes in the next page of that particular chapter, Hashirama has been established as the superior of the two in the past, while Madara did gain the Rinnegan & a portion of Hashirama's Mokuton, he also lost the ability to summon Kurama at full strength, so in reality he just traded powers, so I would imagine they are more or less equals as of right now.shodaimeicon:

madara didnt trade powers. edo madara gained techs weaker than perfect susano and he has never shown the ability to use these techs in conjunction with perfect susano so they dont add to his full power.

ems madara gained the kyuubi which can be used with PS and adds to his overall power.

 

[Percy Jackson]

Just because we haven't seen hashi. use bijuu in a fight, that does't mean he can't summon it.. If he can summon tools then he can summon bijuu cuz bijuu is a tools to a ninja.

The question is, dose he really need to use it? The guy he's even seal 9tail instead of using it.