People need to stop blaming Tobirama for everything.

[pateuvasiliu]

First of all, Tobirama did what any other soldier would have. He wanted his army's #1 threat dead.

Hashirama is like Naruto. He clung to the memory of the young Madara foolishly and was even going as far as killing himself and thus plunging the world into chaos ( since Madara was stronger than Tobirama ).

Tobirama kept a cool head and was going to do what was best. If Madara died the Uchihas and the senjus would have asimilated into each other and become one giant clan.

Instead, Hashirama took Madara back to the village and made him a promise he couldn't keep. People hate on Tobirama again, but he was the one to introduce bloody democracy to the ninja world.

Truly, a nation cannot be lead by a man they do not trust. That's obvious. Why was it not obvious to Hashirama... not a clue. Madara said it himself. Even his clan didn't trust him.

So what's next? Madara goes emo, leaves the village and comes back with the kyuubi wanting to destroy it.

Yeah. Tobirama wasn't right. Totally. At least he got to tell Hashirama '' I told you '' after Hashirama went and beat his PMSing girlfriend.

Afterwards, Tobirama created important systems in the village like the Police, the exams and the academy - whereas in villages like Kirigakure pupils had to kill each other to pass.

Fast forward into the future, Tobirama sacrificed his life to protect Hiruzen & co. and died like a badass. He could have sent fodder Danzo instead, but he chose to protect him too. Why? Baffles me- oh wait. That's why. Because he was a good hokage.

Even more forward, the Uchiha clan is slaughtered.

By whom, exactly?

Oh, yeah. Two Uchihas.

So mind telling me how in the world it's Tobirama's fault that 20 years after he died an even more emo Uchiha than Madara went and slaughtered the whole clan?

 

[Uchiha Josephus]

People need to stop making these f*cking threads!!!!!!

That said, I agree.

 

[Father of Naruto]

Tobirama just did what must be done to secure his clan future he is a solider not a damn love boy he dont try to shake hands from everybody Tobirama can see threat coming but not hashirama

 

[Uchiha Legacy]

Tries to make logical thread, and insults opposing characters.

That's what fail threads are made of.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

People need to stop making these f*cking threads!!!!!!

The amount of irrational hate towards Tobirama is too damn high.

I don't even like him that much, but I absolutely hate fanboy-fueled hate.

and insults opposing characters.

It's not an insult. It's reality.

 

[Sazzi]

what tobirama wanted wasnt what was best... it was selfish, and what he wanted, out of hatred.... like i said in the other thread, with making madara hokage, you give him something else he could protect, save the village and hashirama a lot of fighting, and forge and unstopable alliance...

 

[LordRevan]

They would've trusted Madara if Hashirama was right next to him working along with him. That was the point of him becoming Hokage.

He didn't want there to be the whole deal with "inequality" between clans. Therefore he purposed Madara as the Hokage. Out of Hashirama and Tobirama.. Hashirama is the better overall thinker.

What Hashirama did was the right thing. Look at what happened when he treated the Uchiha equal.. vs what happened when Tobirama segregated them.

Tobirama still had distrust against the Uchiha.

 

[Shikamaru101]

Tobirama talks about democracy and then goes ahead and appoints Hiruzen as the Hokage by himself when he dies.....

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Out of Hashirama and Tobirama.. Hashirama is the better overall thinker.

You do realise that it was Hashirama's thinking that ended up with Madara using the Kyuubi against the village, the Uchihas being massacred, Minato and Kushina's death and just about everything that happened in the series?

Tobirama talks about democracy and then goes ahead and appoints Hiruzen as the Hokage by himself when he dies.....

Hiruzen was his and Hashirama's student. He also had the Elders - trained, again, by Tobirama and Hashirama - guide him. It was also just before he died so the time was short.

 

[IKSOKRIPS]

Tobirama talks about democracy and then goes ahead and appoints Hiruzen as the Hokage by himself when he dies.....

And what, Hiruzen didn't do the same thing with Minato?

 

[pateuvasiliu]

And what, Hiruzen didn't do the same thing with Minato?

Not really. He chose Jiraiya first, arguably the strongest Shinobi in Konoha at that time.

Minato was barely 20 and was the second choice.

 

[sulanis]

Tobirama just did what must be done to secure his clan future he is a solider not a damn love boy he dont try to shake hands from everybody Tobirama can see threat coming but not hashirama

this is correct to the max!

 

[DeathandEnvy]

Tobirama talks about democracy and then goes ahead and appoints Hiruzen as the Hokage by himself when he dies.....

Yeah but Hiruzen had all the qualities needed for a Hokage anyway and I'm sure the people would have respected the Hokage's decision(Not danzo of course.

 

[khaoz]

tobirama is a baws he thought like a hokage and hashi thought with his heart

 

[IKSOKRIPS]

Not really. He chose Jiraiya first, arguably the strongest Shinobi in Konoha at that time.

Minato was barely 20 and was the second choice.

Umm. . . . . . . . . no. Jiraiya was never chosen as a Hokage by Hiruzen, he was chosen to be Hokage when Hiruzen died.

Hiruzne wanted Orochimaru to become Hokage, but he saw darkness in him and chose Minato over him. That was on of the things that Orochimaru seeked revenge for.

 

[first sage hokage]

HE WAS A BAD MAN and had no place leading ppl or running a village

First of all, Tobirama did what any other soldier would have. He wanted his army's #1 threat dead.

Hashirama is like Naruto. He clung to the memory of the young Madara foolishly and was even going as far as killing himself and thus plunging the world into chaos ( since Madara was stronger than Tobirama ).

Tobirama kept a cool head and was going to do what was best. If Madara died the Uchihas and the senjus would have asimilated into each other and become one giant clan.

Instead, Hashirama took Madara back to the village and made him a promise he couldn't keep. People hate on Tobirama again, but he was the one to introduce bloody democracy to the ninja world.

Truly, a nation cannot be lead by a man they do not trust. That's obvious. Why was it not obvious to Hashirama... not a clue. Madara said it himself. Even his clan didn't trust him.

So what's next? Madara goes emo, leaves the village and comes back with the kyuubi wanting to destroy it.

Yeah. Tobirama wasn't right. Totally. At least he got to tell Hashirama '' I told you '' after Hashirama went and beat his PMSing girlfriend.

Afterwards, Tobirama created important systems in the village like the Police, the exams and the academy - whereas in villages like Kirigakure pupils had to kill each other to pass.

Fast forward into the future, Tobirama sacrificed his life to protect Hiruzen & co. and died like a badass. He could have sent fodder Danzo instead, but he chose to protect him too. Why? Baffles me- oh wait. That's why. Because he was a good hokage.

Even more forward, the Uchiha clan is slaughtered.

By whom, exactly?

Oh, yeah. Two Uchihas.

So mind telling me how in the world it's Tobirama's fault that 20 years after he died an even more emo Uchiha than Madara went and slaughtered the whole clan?

 

[cmilius]

I agree completely tobirama was the better Hokage between him and his brother because he could see the flower for the tree by trying to eliminate madara who was a threat to the village and shinobi while, hashi couldn't see those things. And brought a freak to the village to later trying to destroy it.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

Tobirama only thought about his own clan even though the uchiha made truce to senju he still wanted to overthrow the uchiha in someway but unfortunately madara heard his none sense and decided to leave the village

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Umm. . . . . . . . . no. Jiraiya was never chosen as a Hokage by Hiruzen, he was chosen to be Hokage when Hiruzen died.

Hiruzne wanted Orochimaru to become Hokage, but he saw darkness in him and chose Minato over him. That was on of the things that Orochimaru seeked revenge for.

It was stated that when Jiraiya was chosen to be Hokage after Hiruzen died he rejected it for the second time.

Years later, when Orochimaru betrayed Konoha and left the village, Jiraiya pursued him, trying to convince his friend to come back (similar to Naruto's efforts to bring Sasuke home). Orochimaru refused, and attacked Jiraiya. While he tried to find a reason for Orochimaru's defection, Jiraiya eventually realised that his friend wasn't coming back. Feeling that he was responsible for Orochimaru's escape, Jiraiya left Konoha so he could follow Orochimaru's movements, as well as those of "Akatsuki", an organisation which Orochimaru had eventually joined. In doing so, Jiraiya was unable to fulfil the Third's wishes of him taking on the role of Hokage, feeling that tracking down Orochimaru was more important.

 

[RasenKirin]

You can argue all you want but the fact of the matter is, Tobirama was blinded by his hatred for Madara and the Uchiha. Even after the truce he did not trust them at all. Madara could definitely see this which is why he looked at him the way he did when he interrupted him and Hashirama's conversation. Unfortunately, you can't blame everything on him due to the fact that his clan did not trust him either. If they had trusted and believed in the man who was entrusted to protect them all they might now have had to been wiped out later on in the series, but instead they chose the Senju way which led to a lot of trouble because of Tobirama and the Council.

You say Tobirama came up with democracy in the Ninja World, however it was not Tobirama alone who came to this. Pretty sure the Lords of the Fire Country had stressed it.

I do like Tobirama overall, but seems to me his hate for the Uchiha were stronger than any Uchiha's hate toward anything.